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Hakan: ``where`s my oil barrel?" (tough situations thread)

OcaOca Joined: Posts: 21Registered
What happens when you are against a character that has good armor break moves and you know you can't DNC all the time? What happens when your Hakan is unoiled and your at the distance when you know you can't lk oil or ex oil? What happens when you get knocked down and you see your Hakan is unoiled? Would you continue letting your opponent apply pressure on your unoiled Hakan and just hope that you can throw them, air throw them or oil rocket them, or maybe would you do something different?
What would you do to cover up Hakan's weakness? This thread is to discuss how Hakan players escape and prevent tough situations or what they would do when they are in these situations. Feel free to post any situation, or how you would get out of them to help out the Hakan community :)
PSN player from Can

Comments

  • CitizenCIACitizenCIA Flipping tables since 96' Joined: Posts: 1,079Registered
    If you're going to play Hakan, you have to know that sometimes you'll end up in bad situations, and sometimes you're going to have to block for a while. Really if you're stuck in the corner dry against a character with good corner pressure or in that perfect range a Balrog or Blanka, or Honda (and a few others) put you in where they're a few steps back but they can easily punish any jump in, oil up, or dash in, you have to play it patiently.

    So thats what I do, i block. I will block for days until I find a way to escape. You can't be afraid to just sit there and wait, take chip damage, because Hakan can make that up easily, and just wait for their mistake.
    USA's 7th best Hakan.
    "I'll write to Capcom after this, ask them to nerf Hakan" "Thank you..put him back where he should be."
  • EMPEROR_COWEMPEROR_COW Joined: Posts: 276Registered
    this is going to sound a little bit ignorant ...

    but really .. i feel alot of people rely too much on the oil that they are almost helpless without it .. and i think this is a huge mistake.. its true we have it going great for us in ver 2012 with the nice startup for momentum ...

    but its just as important to learn DRYkan .. infact i think its fundemental ... even for oiled hakan as its basicly the same plus gimmicks ...
    you cant just depend on the gimmicks before you're acctually solid with your character ...

    1) take anti-airing for example ...
    hakan has arguably crap antiairs apart from ultra 2 ...
    now yes with oil you can FADNC parry.. but what if they empty jump?
    people should learn to antiair with his normals ...
    f.LP for neutrals and divekicks
    st.HP for mid range jumps
    st.MP and cr.MP for far jumps or empty jumps ...
    jump throw
    f.MP for specific punishes ...
    or even whiffing the opponents attack with f.MP,f.HK or cr.HP.. which brings me to my next point ... sometimes u dont have to antiair... just whiffing the opponents jumpin will dosorient them .. plus if you get time to block their OS if timed correctly ...

    2) focus attack mind game....
    Hakan has not 1 but 2 far reaching heavy damage 2 hit normals!!!
    sure with oil you can FADNC... but he is pretty damn solid without it! ... cr.HP and st.HP are great anti-focus attacks ....and they create a gap and they hurt as hell .. plus in most cases they are also pretty damn safe !

    3) combos, blockstrings and frametraps:
    before you go and do all this f.MP FADNC or f.LK FADNC mumbojumbo ... get you damn basic links down !!!
    for one st.LP string is now +4 making it a true string! if you master that you eliminate pressure! you dont have to do it like 10 times ... but if you can do 1-3 truely stringed together on block .. then you have a whole new world of situations ...
    - you can bait out reversals .. by not doing the next st.LP
    - you can punish jump attempts and continue your string with one of the following:
    f.LK, HP dive
    cr.LP, LP dive
    st.MP to create a gap
    - you can frame trap using st.LP into delayed st.LP into whatever you like ... or st.LP into st.MP for a clean 2 frame trap (great anti jump move).. or if you want more pressure and you have the meter to burn .. you can trap with st.LP, cr.LP, LP slide back FADC , or st.LP, cr.MK, HP slide back FADC
    - even without oil... from point blank you can st LP into rocket ...

    then theres the whole jumpin pressure ...
    you can jump in with a mid or heavy attack into a light attack for a true string .. if it's an LP you can further extend your pressure with the previous list ... add to that the option of LK or MK dive on block OR HIT standing ..

    4) air-air options:
    - air grab is simply amazing ... and setups for free free LK oil and almost all pressure options after ... there problem solved .. LOL
    - then you have your j.MP ... here you can choose to garantee your damage with a followup slide ... or reset with f.HK and gamble with an EX dive or any other setup... both great options that should be considered
    - in general hakans air attacks are really good and they are one of his strong points in my opinion ... you need to learn which normal beats what vs certain matchups ... 2 amazing pokes are .. j.HP and j.HK ... they can beat out empty jumps, they can destroy jumpbacks in the corner .. and they with the air game in mane cases ...
    another underused normal is j.MK ... as dumb as it looks its good ... try it from time to time ..
    plus theres more advantage for neutral jump light attacks ...
    basicly you need to be familiar with all these options and learn their applications ... regardless of oil ..

    5) options after knockdown:
    if you're dry .. chances are you've been pressured too much and your opponent is at a health lead ... now .. would you try n oil up and give the opponent a chance to wakeup and breathe or would you carry on with oil-less pressure ?? it depends on the gap really ... personally if the gap was big .. screw the oil ..
    - every situation has a DRY dive setup .. and most of them work with oil anyway .. at the risk of a cr.LK spam to whiff it or a reversal
    - same for safe on block slides .. giving you a chance for baiting punishes and maybe getting an EX rocket ...still a risk of getting punished with a reversal
    - there is safe jumps .. for most characters safe jump shinanigens are the same .. (after slide whiff st.MP, jf.HK .. or after dive nj, jf HK or after super whiff MP twice and jf.HK.. etc ).. theres a risk of not getting them right and another risk of the opponent crouching which makes them whiff sometimes ...
    - there is a 4th option (a very underused one) .. i highlighted this in the setup page and it seemed ignored .. it is an underused mechanic not just with hakan but with all characters ... its the meaty setups ... with the setups i placed you have 3 options ... all relatively alot safer than the previous 3 ...
    when you're positioned at point blank in the opponents face after knockdown ...
    1) there is no risk of being hit with a reversal unless you acctually do something
    2) if you land a meaty attack .. it would work as anti jump and anti grab as well as give you huge frame advantage .. plus vs some characters if you meaty with a light .. not only would you be able to either string it and anti jump and anti grab .. but also because its meaty .. their reversal would be blockable after making it great for bait!
    3) you get to land a rocket without burning EX meter .. again because its meaty making it beat any 3 frame or more attacks .. or even throws .. (basicly it would beat crouchtech)
    for all the people that skipped that part im posting the setups here again because i find them really important ... plus when you mix them with the safe slide setups .. you get a whole new dynamic to hakans 50/50 mind game (which you can do with or without oil)
    here are the setups..The following setups will guarantee meaty rockets:
    - after MP rocket: MP slide, rocket
    - after HP/EX rocket: LP Slide, rocket
    - after slide-press: MP slide, rocket
    - after (oil) f.HK: LP slide, rocket
    - after cr.HK: f.HK, rocket
    - after (dry) slide backward FADC: cr.HP, rocket ........................... ?????????
    - after air throw: f.HK, cr.LK, rocket. (or cr.HP, st.LP, rocket).......... ?????????
    - after dive: st.MP, HP slide, rocket
    (replace rocket with your meaty normal for the other options)
    ---

    this is all touching on the surface ... but what i am trying to get accross is .. you need to be good without the oil ... you cant just rely on it ... otherwise you're at a huge disadvantage with your character and if somebody exposes that then its over ..

    I hope you find this helpful
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    Back in the summer when I started dabbling in Hakan I had the good fortune of seeing CitizenCIA play at a local Fight Night, and one of the things that I can distinctly recall saying to myself was, "Wow, he's completely comfortable with being dry. It's like he doesn't care." I said to myself when I was starting to take him seriously, "Okay, I'm not oiled, but that's okay, I don't need to be." I've carried that mindset into my Hakan; yeah, oil's great and all, but he does not require it to perform effectively.
    - after dive: st.MP, HP slide, rocket
    Gonna try that out for sure. You may want to clarify; in your post you say "MK rocket". Do you mean MK dive, or MP rocket? (I assume the latter.)
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • CitizenCIACitizenCIA Flipping tables since 96' Joined: Posts: 1,079Registered
    Back in the summer when I started dabbling in Hakan I had the good fortune of seeing CitizenCIA play at a local Fight Night, and one of the things that I can distinctly recall saying to myself was, "Wow, he's completely comfortable with being dry. It's like he doesn't care." I said to myself when I was starting to take him seriously, "Okay, I'm not oiled, but that's okay, I don't need to be." I've carried that mindset into my Hakan; yeah, oil's great and all, but he does not require it to perform effectively.


    Gonna try that out for sure. You may want to clarify; in your post you say "MK rocket". Do you mean MK dive, or MP rocket? (I assume the latter.)

    Haha, honestly it comes from playing Hakan since super. It was really hard to get oiled and stay oiled in that game. 2012 seems so easy in comparison. (Because it is..in comparison.) Though I am a weirder Hakan than most. I usually don't like giving up momentum if I have it..so even if i run out of oil, I'm still going to be on my opponent. Of course this puts me at a riskier position if my opponent gains the upper hand and goes on the offensive as Hakan as by far the worst defensive options in the whole game when he's dry. And of course there are ways to get oil and still keep up the hakan momentum. All part of me trying to improve my game. Something i've been working on for a while now is to try to have a safer game overall. Hakan has to take risks, but I take too many risks..I understand that.

    That being said, yes..you need to comfortable with dry hakan. Dry he still has good pokes, there are specific dry tick spd setups as well you have to learn (Believe me many people see a dry hakan and they are NOT worried about the spd..considering how pathetic the range is. )

    I guess the general idea is, you should be comfortable with dry hakan, but not content with dry hakan. And its something that I am still learning.
    USA's 7th best Hakan.
    "I'll write to Capcom after this, ask them to nerf Hakan" "Thank you..put him back where he should be."
  • EMPEROR_COWEMPEROR_COW Joined: Posts: 276Registered
    Gonna try that out for sure. You may want to clarify; in your post you say "MK rocket". Do you mean MK dive, or MP rocket? (I assume the latter.)

    lol i meant rocket .. sorry about that .. edited :P

    thx ..

    yeah by all means try these out and see how effective they are ... oiled or dry it doesnt matter ... just adds a new dynamic ...
  • SynKyllerSynKyller TFA Founder Joined: Posts: 308Registered
    this is going to sound a little bit ignorant ...

    but really .. i feel alot of people rely too much on the oil that they are almost helpless without it .. and i think this is a huge mistake.. its true we have it going great for us in ver 2012 with the nice startup for momentum ...

    but its just as important to learn DRYkan .. infact i think its fundemental ... even for oiled hakan as its basicly the same plus gimmicks ...
    you cant just depend on the gimmicks before you're acctually solid with your character ...

    THANK YOU!!! People around my way, always tell me to hurry up and oil up or you going to lose! I reply back, NO. just wait and watch... When I win, they're like, "He beat him with out oiling up!" How the hell??? Simple. Hakan 101.... To master Hakan, you must master Dry'kan FIRST! Every dedicated Hakan player I know or seen, has two things on their mind when playing; 1) a mental oil timer and 2) Dry'kan check's and balances.

    In my region, people are amazed at how oily I keep hakan. Its because I have a timer. For about 15 days, instead of combos I practice oiling up and keeping a clock in my head on the time it will run out, then practice doing combos and keeping aware of the mental clock. It may not seem much, but during an offline tournament against the best, nerves can come to play and totally throw you off. you gotta keep a cool head and focus.

    As for Checks and balances, what Ive been testing out lately online is going dry ON purpose. Seems like most of the SSFIV world is aware how dangerous Hakan is now. I see them staying away and waiting to the oil goes out. SO instead of chasing people any more, I'm practicing what to do when the oil runs out and working on my defense. My Offense with Hakan is great, now I need to work on my defense. I went over every tournament match at Major that I went to and I realize that my defense or lack there of is the reason why I lost. So Ive been using Dry'Kan.. ALOT. Just so I can know how to get out of high pressure situations.

    I use to hurry up once I became dry, but that seem to get me killed alot, so now I oil up when I really need to. Like case in point. You're facing a ryu. he has 5 HP left after being hit with one of your ultras, you have over 40. Your out of oil, Do you oil up?? Most of you would say yes, but I go in for the kill, I'll OS over to his body, trying to bait that DP (because you know its coming). I'll keep that pressure on him. That's just me. Im learning ways to focus more on hakan and not just his oily attributes.
    SSFIVAE: Hakan | SFxT:King/Dudley/Hwoang/??? (Still trying to find a 4th)
  • GooNGooN Joined: Posts: 33Registered
    THANK YOU!!! People around my way, always tell me to hurry up and oil up or you going to lose! I reply back, NO. just wait and watch... When I win, they're like, "He beat him with out oiling up!" How the hell??? Simple. Hakan 101.... To master Hakan, you must master Dry'kan FIRST! Every dedicated Hakan player I know or seen, has two things on their mind when playing; 1) a mental oil timer and 2) Dry'kan check's and balances.

    In my region, people are amazed at how oily I keep hakan. Its because I have a timer. For about 15 days, instead of combos I practice oiling up and keeping a clock in my head on the time it will run out, then practice doing combos and keeping aware of the mental clock. It may not seem much, but during an offline tournament against the best, nerves can come to play and totally throw you off. you gotta keep a cool head and focus.

    As for Checks and balances, what Ive been testing out lately online is going dry ON purpose. Seems like most of the SSFIV world is aware how dangerous Hakan is now. I see them staying away and waiting to the oil goes out. SO instead of chasing people any more, I'm practicing what to do when the oil runs out and working on my defense. My Offense with Hakan is great, now I need to work on my defense. I went over every tournament match at Major that I went to and I realize that my defense or lack there of is the reason why I lost. So Ive been using Dry'Kan.. ALOT. Just so I can know how to get out of high pressure situations.

    I use to hurry up once I became dry, but that seem to get me killed alot, so now I oil up when I really need to. Like case in point. You're facing a ryu. he has 5 HP left after being hit with one of your ultras, you have over 40. Your out of oil, Do you oil up?? Most of you would say yes, but I go in for the kill, I'll OS over to his body, trying to bait that DP (because you know its coming). I'll keep that pressure on him. That's just me. Im learning ways to focus more on hakan and not just his oily attributes.
    yeah I've been noticing a lot of new Hakan players having a weak Hakan game. I see a lot of oil dive set ups that they seem to know very well. Most likely learned from this very site. And the abuse of unformillarity of Hakan. Which is not really the fualt of the Hakan player, but because of this I see new Hakan players playing it safe and using only a few tools all the time.Leaving out all the other important Hakan tools. I see these same players who totally rape somebody beacuse the oil dive set up works so well with people who don't know the match up at all. And you have to know that it's going to be the majority people who fight Hakan will be like this. But get them to fight somebody who knows how to get out of that set up, or block that random slide and I see these same new hakan players fall right apart. It's pretty sad. I guess with Hakan 2012 new Hakan players gotten a bit spoiled by all the new Tools they have to work with right from the get go. Old school Hakan mainners like a few of us here really know to play Hakan in the hardest situations.that means No oil and defense like a rock. Back then We didn't have this awesome Oil dive that works so well. Sure Hakan had oil dive set ups but the timing was way more strict. Super was extreamly hard to catch people in mid jump. And we didn't have a real combo aside from jump in HK, mk, then slide. Not to metion trying to get oil on was a
    B!tch because right off the bat we started off at a disadvantage. But I feel because of this we old school hakan players understand how to play Hakan in any situation, and do well. Not saying that we will win every fight. But because we know how to play Old school Hakan that it only makes our 2012 Hakan that much better. Does that make any sense?
    I mean The xboxLive has a lot more B Ranked Hakan players doing awesome Oil Dive set ups and random slides, and beating a whole bunch of people like that. But I also see them getting beat real bad once they go against someone who will not fall for those tricks. Because there Other tools are extreamly weak.
    I donno.. I want these Hakan players to do well, but they way that they are going it seems like the "easy" mode Hakan 2012 has blinded them.
    I was just advise the new players to work on your defense, and mix up your game a lot more. I mean, just because you can abuse the Oil Dive set up on somebody who has no idea on how to get out of it, should you just use that and be done with it? I think that's the wrong way to go. Sure you'll get the win, but will you learn anything from it? No. I would say, just to mix it up all the time. Don't try to do the same thing everytime. Learn to Block and learn how to fight as DryKan.

    Cheers guys :)
  • SynKyllerSynKyller TFA Founder Joined: Posts: 308Registered
    But I feel because of this we old school hakan players understand how to play Hakan in any situation, and do well. Not saying that we will win every fight. But because we know how to play Old school Hakan that it only makes our 2012 Hakan that much better. Does that make any sense?

    Makes all the sense in the world. Like last night, I've been playing all the characters I have problems with Hakan (Rufus, Zangief, Seth and C.Viper) to get a better understanding of the characters. I went against a hakan with Rufus. I beat him bad, He messages me that I got lucky and that wont happened again. he challenges me again and I pick Hakan to fight the Mirror match. He was soo concerned with staying oily that I beat him the first round basically unoiled. Second round, he was trying to do oil dive setups but I easily got out of them. Beat him silly again. He then asked me how did I do it with unoiled hakan? Simple. I have my DryKan fundamentals down so I can still win. Oil is Good. No GDLK, but when you run out, then what? I swear I wish I had the match between me and EMP|KDZ @ Season Beating Velocity. I was mind fucked because I never faced a Turtling Rufus before. He knew the spacing and how to keep me unoiled. I couldnt get in or get oiled.
    SSFIVAE: Hakan | SFxT:King/Dudley/Hwoang/??? (Still trying to find a 4th)
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    just because you can abuse the Oil Dive set up on somebody who has no idea on how to get out of it, should you just use that and be done with it? I think that's the wrong way to go. Sure you'll get the win, but will you learn anything from it? No. I would say, just to mix it up all the time.
    I disagree with you here.

    I'm one of these "New" Hakan players that you're talking about. I'm C+ ranked on XBL (not that it matters for anything, imo). I abuse the heck out of :mk: dive > f.dash > f. or b.jump.any.normal > :mk: dive loop. If my opponent doesn't know how to block it, why in the world would I vary my tactics? I firmly abide by the mantra of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Grammatical qualms aside, I stand by that. I'll do that dive loop until one of two things happens: 1) my opponent dies or 2) my opponent does a wakeup cr.normal or reversal. If you mix it up, you run the risk of your opponent beating the mixup when he would have lost to the dive (though that is inherently the risk of all mixups). Ironically, there is an article on the front page right now (link: http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/13/ssfiv-ae-ver-2012-growing-the-beast-episode-8-–-im-a-grappler/) that is relevant to this.

    In the video, he talks about "sandbagging" which, in a word, is being reckless until your opponent does something about it. If they can't deal with the pressure, you win. If they can deal with the pressure, that's when you back off and say, "Alright! A REAL challenge!" Like I said above, I abuse dive setups. However, starting from the first time that it doesn't work, I start factoring in more and more mixup. My opponent learned that cr.normal beats dive setups? Great, next time he wakes up I'll do the dive setup but hit him with an SPD instead. Oh, he's doing a reversal and beating my SPD? Great, next time he wakes up I'll block it and then punish. This brings me to my point:

    Hakan has very strong mixup. However, not abusing a mixup that works is, IMHO, foolish. Yes, you should not rely on one setup or "gimmick" to win. (And by "gimmick", I mean your opponent not knowing how to beat dives.) In short: if they don't know how to deal with it, keep doing it until they learn. If that happens to get you all the way through the match, so be it. I still know the other tools in Hakan's game. I still know how to play dry. I still know when to trade momentum for oil and increased safety. Some day, I will blow up a stream doing the oil dive loop and I'll get salt thrown at me for being "gimmicky". But you know what? If it beat you, it beat you. I can rest easily knowing that, had my opponent figured out how to deal with that setup, I'd still have a veritable smorgasbord of options and I still probably would have beaten you because you underestimated my character.

    I also disapprove of the rift that you're creating between the "new" and "old" Hakans. This is a place for everyone to learn and improve. There's no need to declare, "New Hakans do this. =old grampa voice= You know, in MY day, we had to fight unoiled, from the start!" Yeah, Hakan has gotten buffed. Yes, you played him before he was buffed. That doesn't change the fact that stuff that works now is powerful and effective. Just because it hasn't always been an option doesn't de-validate it as a strategy. I agree that it is necessary to learn how to fight unoiled, but creating these arbitrary labels only serves to divide the player base.

    EDIT: oh yeah, if I'm playing against a character that can win off of one knockdown like Abel or Ibuki or Akuma, things change a bit. The fundamental idea is still similar though.
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • GooNGooN Joined: Posts: 33Registered
    I disagree with you here.

    I'm one of these "New" Hakan players that you're talking about. I'm C+ ranked on XBL (not that it matters for anything, imo). I abuse the heck out of :mk: dive > f.dash > f. or b.jump.any.normal > :mk: dive loop. If my opponent doesn't know how to block it, why in the world would I vary my tactics? I firmly abide by the mantra of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Grammatical qualms aside, I stand by that. I'll do that dive loop until one of two things happens: 1) my opponent dies or 2) my opponent does a wakeup cr.normal or reversal. If you mix it up, you run the risk of your opponent beating the mixup when he would have lost to the dive (though that is inherently the risk of all mixups). Ironically, there is an article on the front page right now (link: http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/13/ssfiv-ae-ver-2012-growing-the-beast-episode-8-–-im-a-grappler/) that is relevant to this.

    In the video, he talks about "sandbagging" which, in a word, is being reckless until your opponent does something about it. If they can't deal with the pressure, you win. If they can deal with the pressure, that's when you back off and say, "Alright! A REAL challenge!" Like I said above, I abuse dive setups. However, starting from the first time that it doesn't work, I start factoring in more and more mixup. My opponent learned that cr.normal beats dive setups? Great, next time he wakes up I'll do the dive setup but hit him with an SPD instead. Oh, he's doing a reversal and beating my SPD? Great, next time he wakes up I'll block it and then punish. This brings me to my point:

    Hakan has very strong mixup. However, not abusing a mixup that works is, IMHO, foolish. Yes, you should not rely on one setup or "gimmick" to win. (And by "gimmick", I mean your opponent not knowing how to beat dives.) In short: if they don't know how to deal with it, keep doing it until they learn. If that happens to get you all the way through the match, so be it. I still know the other tools in Hakan's game. I still know how to play dry. I still know when to trade momentum for oil and increased safety. Some day, I will blow up a stream doing the oil dive loop and I'll get salt thrown at me for being "gimmicky". But you know what? If it beat you, it beat you. I can rest easily knowing that, had my opponent figured out how to deal with that setup, I'd still have a veritable smorgasbord of options and I still probably would have beaten you because you underestimated my character.

    I also disapprove of the rift that you're creating between the "new" and "old" Hakans. This is a place for everyone to learn and improve. There's no need to declare, "New Hakans do this. =old grampa voice= You know, in MY day, we had to fight unoiled, from the start!" Yeah, Hakan has gotten buffed. Yes, you played him before he was buffed. That doesn't change the fact that stuff that works now is powerful and effective. Just because it hasn't always been an option doesn't de-validate it as a strategy. I agree that it is necessary to learn how to fight unoiled, but creating these arbitrary labels only serves to divide the player base.

    EDIT: oh yeah, if I'm playing against a character that can win off of one knockdown like Abel or Ibuki or Akuma, things change a bit. The fundamental idea is still similar though.
    yeah look no disrestect to you and any other new comer who plays in that manner. I will abused the Oil dive every now and then when I see an opening, but I just usually try and do mix ups, and IMO it seems to make it a lot more fun. I feel that you learn a lot more by trying all things and not abuse the easy way option. There really is no wrong way to play this game. This is what I honestly belive too. Like take my sparring buddy here Juaine. Juanie can pretty much play any charecter and do really well without really doing anything. He started off with Ryu, learned he's basic moves/combos/Ultra/Supers. He gets the very basic stuff down because they are easy to do. He does this with every charecter. Sometimes not even figering out one combo. But he can still hold his own when playing people around he's skill level. I would say that he's a B+ kinda guy.He's very good at understnding the fundimentals of the SF4 Engin. Means, he can Block well, Mash at the right time or Tick throws ect. Now Juanie plays in that one way thinking. "If it works just keep doing it until it dosn't." Now this is a really good style to play when you haven't played the other guy too much. You'll most likly get a lot of he/she's life beofre they find out whats going on. BUt play the same person 5 more times and they will figure out what your doing and react to that and most likly give you a hard punish. Juanie is a tough bugger to beat. But once I figure out he's game, he really has nothing on me. Because he plays such a way that I already know what he's going to try to do beofre he even does it. He has a much harder time taking me on once I'm in my grove then when he is on his, because I'm a complet qouistion mark right off the bat. We both have been playing Street fighter for the same amount of time. But the difference in how we play the game is night and day. I'm still Improving my Hakan all the time. Trying new things and keeping things fun and interesting. Juaine has pretty much stayed the same with all the charecters he plays. He learns some moves that are abuse friendly and does them until I stop him. When he starts having to much of a hard time, he moves to another charecter and repeats he's mathod. He will win a whole bunch of time until I figure out he's Go to moves, and then I get the upper hand again. So In all this, Juoanie just goes for the simple powreful moves and abuses them to no end. It's Frustrating because the SF4 Engin can let people get away with Murder. But I find that because I keep things changing all the time, I usually end up wining in the long run. You get what I'm sayin? It's still hard for me to overcome a play style like that but because my mind is not limited right away, I can see other option a lot quicker then he can. If your in it to win and nothing more then that's fine. Abuse whatever method you like, But what I was trying to say was by limiting yourself in one way it will hurt/hinder your overall improvment of the charecter your playing. Your a new Hakan player and that's cool. More the better. I will try to help how ever I can to whom ever wants it, which is why I wrote what I wrote earlier. It wasn't to bad mouth the new. If that's what it sounded like then I'm sorry. I only pointed out what I'm seeing Online with new Hakan players. And I know for a fact that they will have a crazy hard time once they start playing higher level Gameplay. But yeah, My bad for sounding so "better then all new comer" attitude. Really not what I was going for :)
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    snip
    But yeah, My bad for sounding so "better then all new comer" attitude. Really not what I was going for :)
    I appreciate that, I did kind of get that vibe and I'm glad that you clarified =)
    Perhaps I have not clouded the true intent of my statement. What I'm suggesting is that whether you are playing to win or playing for fun, winning is a positive feeling. Don't stop doing something just because your opponent doesn't know how to deal with it, but be prepared with other options for opponents who do. That's a better way to put it.
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • EMPEROR_COWEMPEROR_COW Joined: Posts: 276Registered
    i dunno ...
    if i see someone unable to get out of dives ... i spam the hell out of them .. till i win or he rage quits ...
    a win is a win ... and you DO learn something from situations like that ...
    1- you get your timing down
    2- you learn when to read your opponent because you know eventually they will catch on and reversal ... and you should be able to have an eye to read it.. and see when their break point is ... some players break at your last dive attempt .. some at the 2nd some at the 3rd ... etc ...
    3- gives you a reason to learn more than 1 or 2 different setups in the different situations to further expand your dive setup arsenal ..
    4- once you learn the setups .. you will realize that some safe slides, or whiff slides for meaty rockets or even safe jumps are setup the same way ... adding to yoru mixup and the confusion to the opponent ..
    5- you'll learn to bait them out with faraway setups into coward crouch ... and from there its a whole new ball game ...

    i say dive away ..
    because you know at high level play you will only get away with 1 or 2 setups the whole match ... if the opponent knows the hakan matchup ..

    i kinda put sf on hold for a while ... i havent quit hakan ...
    but i am really enjoying soul calibur V ! .. its no sciv .. but still its nice and fresh and the online is great !
    will i come back to sf ? honestly i dunno ... we'll see ... i had alot of projects planned on paper ... never got around to recording them .. its a shame ... :/
    who knows what happens in the next month or so ...
    not to mention doa5 demo is out soon ... (looking forward to that .. always loved that series)
    i dunno ...
    maybe if they do a sf4:3s next year ... then ill deffinately jump back on track ... but for now ... transending history and the world ... a tale of souls and swords .. eternaly retold .. :P
  • GooNGooN Joined: Posts: 33Registered
    i dunno ...
    if i see someone unable to get out of dives ... i spam the hell out of them .. till i win or he rage quits ...
    a win is a win ... and you DO learn something from situations like that ...
    1- you get your timing down
    2- you learn when to read your opponent because you know eventually they will catch on and reversal ... and you should be able to have an eye to read it.. and see when their break point is ... some players break at your last dive attempt .. some at the 2nd some at the 3rd ... etc ...
    3- gives you a reason to learn more than 1 or 2 different setups in the different situations to further expand your dive setup arsenal ..
    4- once you learn the setups .. you will realize that some safe slides, or whiff slides for meaty rockets or even safe jumps are setup the same way ... adding to yoru mixup and the confusion to the opponent ..
    5- you'll learn to bait them out with faraway setups into coward crouch ... and from there its a whole new ball game ...

    i say dive away ..
    because you know at high level play you will only get away with 1 or 2 setups the whole match ... if the opponent knows the hakan matchup ..

    i kinda put sf on hold for a while ... i havent quit hakan ...
    but i am really enjoying soul calibur V ! .. its no sciv .. but still its nice and fresh and the online is great !
    will i come back to sf ? honestly i dunno ... we'll see ... i had alot of projects planned on paper ... never got around to recording them .. its a shame ... :/
    who knows what happens in the next month or so ...
    not to mention doa5 demo is out soon ... (looking forward to that .. always loved that series)
    i dunno ...
    maybe if they do a sf4:3s next year ... then ill deffinately jump back on track ... but for now ... transending history and the world ... a tale of souls and swords .. eternaly retold .. :P
    Hey I just got Soul Calibur 5 as well. I bought it cause I was pretty good with the... um, not sure which one anymore? The one with the star Wars guys in there? 2 or 4? Anyway, I had a blast playing that game with some buddies of mine.Thought we were pretty good.. Heard 5 was coming out and bought it right away. NOw I don't know if It's just me, But I felt like a compleat beginner. I felt so useless trying to do combos and moves. Maybe it's from playing SF4 so heavily since it came out that I have to deprogram my brain, because everything I do in this game dosn't seem to make sense. I do a simple Back down hit, and then try it again in a few seconds and a whole differnt move comes out. It's so werid. I didn't seem to have this problem back when I was playing it a lot. BUt now, the Engin of this game dosn't flow well for me anymore, which is sad. I'm going to try and keep at it, but like you, I might have to put SF4 down for a bit just to fully understnd the games fundimentals again..
  • EMPEROR_COWEMPEROR_COW Joined: Posts: 276Registered
    Hey I just got Soul Calibur 5 as well. I bought it cause I was pretty good with the... um, not sure which one anymore? The one with the star Wars guys in there? 2 or 4? Anyway, I had a blast playing that game with some buddies of mine.Thought we were pretty good.. Heard 5 was coming out and bought it right away. NOw I don't know if It's just me, But I felt like a compleat beginner. I felt so useless trying to do combos and moves. Maybe it's from playing SF4 so heavily since it came out that I have to deprogram my brain, because everything I do in this game dosn't seem to make sense. I do a simple Back down hit, and then try it again in a few seconds and a whole differnt move comes out. It's so werid. I didn't seem to have this problem back when I was playing it a lot. BUt now, the Engin of this game dosn't flow well for me anymore, which is sad. I'm going to try and keep at it, but like you, I might have to put SF4 down for a bit just to fully understnd the games fundimentals again..

    lets not go off topic .. lol ill send you my reply as a pm ;)
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    snip
    Emp, this is totally how I feel. I've been feeling like I can anticipate and read my opponent better. I play matches and I don't just score a knockdown and say, "Oh...uh...okay, we got a knockdown...um...should we do a setup? What if he reversals? Err...maybe I should just block..." It's like I just know what to do automatically.
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • xEGAxBeastkingxxEGAxBeastkingx So....you think you're untouchable? Joined: Posts: 647Registered
    I'll...just place this here.

    Gamertag - GDxKingofBeasts
    We Wanna Win Mode...Activated!!!
  • CaveKillaCaveKilla Joined: Posts: 116Registered
    Honestly, when they apply pressure or try to i stay calm, and block or wait for an opening and usually the other player would do something wreckless, and then i can counter with c.mk in to slide then from there i can oil up and do the f.hvy kick set up in to dive or rocket to throw them in the corner for a unblockable crossup.
    it took me awhile to get use to hakan but usin him since ssf4 it help.
  • wewk584wewk584 Pad Warrior Joined: Posts: 41Registered
    It seems I must play the people that dont mess up and give me an opening. Its sort of the reverse of the DDT abusers. They knock you down once and it seems like its all over. they run a routine on u that almost seems like they read somewhere. No real 'fight'. just OS city until 40 seconds later they collect their 1 PP. The smart ones shut down oiling up first until u run out, especially if you parry them, then they have fun with dry hakan. If I use rufus/gouken I dont experience this as much because their anti-airs have so many active frames. . Im going to work on it tho because Hakan is worth it. Hes the most fun character in the game. I wish his parry was like goukens although being able to combo from parry is a nice bonus gouken doesnt have (without using meter.) Maybe in 2013 it would be nice if hakan got at least some oil as soon as he starts the oil animation. to take a hit and not even get any oil for it sux.
    http://www.vidouf.com/video/joyeux-noel.html <-Killian tries to out troll Ono
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