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How to punish stuff in AE 2012

Dark SkeletonDark Skeleton Joined: Posts: 9Registered
This game is a lot about reacting and punishing, so I think it would be great if we had a thread here compiling all this information. I'll compile all the contribuitions in this OP, with the due quote. Also, please comment on wrong information and post the correct one in that case.
- How to punish spiral arrow (Cammy) on block: light and medium spiral arrow are -17 on block. heavy spiral arrow is -15 and ex spiral arrow is -10. You can punish all those with 9 frames startup moves or faster. Use faster moves, so you don't risk missing. Combo out of it.
yoga fyah contribution: however Cammy can space the spiral in such a way that it makes contact (blocked) in its last active frames, making the punish window tighter and in some cases safe even.
- How to punish spin knuckle (Cammy): spin knuckle is positive on block, all of it's version. Also all of it's version are NOT invulnerable, so you can hit her before she hits you. Wait for her to touch the ground (before the punch), so you can combo out of what you do to hit her.
- How to punish hooligan (Cammy): Just do an anti-air and you will hit her out of it.
4neqs contribution: You can crouch it most of the time, then punish as she recovers.

Comments

  • The BreakerThe Breaker witchcraft works animu Joined: Posts: 1,458Registered
    I don't play games because I am a game.
  • 4neqs4neqs Whoa-oh Joined: Posts: 7,168Registered
    By flying ball, I assume you mean Hooligan. You can crouch it most of the time, then punish as she recovers.
    "But that's SRK for you. SFIV could have a feature where Chun-Li steps out of the TV and gives the players blowjobs, and some would still complain because she wasn't Sakura." --Azrael(?)
  • Dark SkeletonDark Skeleton Joined: Posts: 9Registered
    I don't understand, what's there to help me with punishing? If the framedata, this thread is wider, since it involves neutral game too. Also looking at numbers and reading what you can do is a very different experience for a newbie. And having all the punishing info together also makes our lives easier.
    By flying ball, I assume you mean Hooligan. You can crouch it most of the time, then punish as she recovers.
    It's character specific or depends on the player skill doing the hooligan?
  • yoga fyahyoga fyah hype du jour Joined: Posts: 243Registered
    How to punish spiral arrow (Cammy) on block: light and medium spiral arrow are -17 on block. heavy spiral arrow is -15 and ex spiral arrow is -10. You can punish all those with 9 frames startup moves or faster

    It's not that straightforward.

    Cammy can actuallly space the spiral arrow in such a way that it makes contact (blocked) in its last active frames, making the punish window tighter and in some cases safe even. Same case with a lot of other moves, Dictator and Blanka's silde for example.
  • Dark SkeletonDark Skeleton Joined: Posts: 9Registered
    It's not that straightforward.

    Cammy can actuallly space the spiral arrow in such a way that it makes contact (blocked) in its last active frames, making the punish window tighter and in some cases safe even. Same case with a lot of other moves, Dictator and Blanka's silde for example.
    Info added.
  • XthAtGAm3RGuYXXthAtGAm3RGuYX GOOMBA STOMP!!!! Joined: Posts: 1,381Registered
    Any character with an average anti-air stuffs the fuck out of hooligan. Crouch fierce with Juri = win
    Unchallenged owner of worst user name on SRK

    AE: Juri(Main), Ken(work in progress)::::UMvC3: Felicia/Doom/Wesker::::TTT2: Lili, Kunimitsu
    Thanks to Savaii64 for DAT AV!!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 4,195Registered
    We'll be here forever if you want to discuss every possible punish for every move in AE. This stuff is better suited for character sub-forums, so that the information is much more organized and readily accessible by sorting it for each character.
  • Scrubby AdrianScrubby Adrian Joined: Posts: 117Registered
    Agreed. Perhaps a discussion on the theory behind punishing. What kind of things to look for, what type of precautions to take or whichever. But listing every punish for every move is going to take like... 10 posts at the text cap at least.
    MvC3! Because SF4 wasn't quite easy enough for you.
  • 4neqs4neqs Whoa-oh Joined: Posts: 7,168Registered
    Just go to the matchup threads of the individual characters' subforums, and see what you can find.
    "But that's SRK for you. SFIV could have a feature where Chun-Li steps out of the TV and gives the players blowjobs, and some would still complain because she wasn't Sakura." --Azrael(?)
  • Dark SkeletonDark Skeleton Joined: Posts: 9Registered
    We'll be here forever if you want to discuss every possible punish for every move in AE. This stuff is better suited for character sub-forums, so that the information is much more organized and readily accessible by sorting it for each character.
    Discussing every possible punish would be some really advanced stuff. I think it's ok to just gather the most basic stuff, no need to go character specific. I mean, I think Cammy's is almost done. About Ryu I think we only have to mention how to punish his tatsu, as his shoryuken is obvious and hadouken is character specific, for exemple, no need to go very deep. I really feel there is a lot of things I could punish (I have the reaction and execution from other games), but I don't know what I can do, because I have only 2 weeks of AE 2012, this info would be really useful for me and other beginners even if it's that simple.
  • XthAtGAm3RGuYXXthAtGAm3RGuYX GOOMBA STOMP!!!! Joined: Posts: 1,381Registered
    You should probably stop right here. There's no way to discuss punishing without being character specific. Because every character has their own pros and cons. Like lets use hooligan as an example again. To be able to discuss basic punishing without being character specific, you could just say to punish it with fierce. But is it standing close? Standing far? Crouching? Neutral or diagonal jump? Sure I guess you could say that but then character specifics would come into play since all those moves are completely different for every character. For instance as I said before crouch fierce with Juri blows hooligan to pieces. But what about mokoto? Her crouch fierce is actually a sweep so it wouldn't hit. Vegas crouch fierce is unsafe on hit and block. Chun-li's has very few active frames so it could be hard to time. This why the sub forums exist and why this thread won't work. You're completely over looking the details and small but important bits of information which fighting games revolve around especially at mid and high level play
    Unchallenged owner of worst user name on SRK

    AE: Juri(Main), Ken(work in progress)::::UMvC3: Felicia/Doom/Wesker::::TTT2: Lili, Kunimitsu
    Thanks to Savaii64 for DAT AV!!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 4,195Registered
    Discussing every possible punish would be some really advanced stuff. I think it's ok to just gather the most basic stuff, no need to go character specific. I mean, I think Cammy's is almost done. About Ryu I think we only have to mention how to punish his tatsu, as his shoryuken is obvious and hadouken is character specific, for exemple, no need to go very deep. I really feel there is a lot of things I could punish (I have the reaction and execution from other games), but I don't know what I can do, because I have only 2 weeks of AE 2012, this info would be really useful for me and other beginners even if it's that simple.

    Yes, it would be advanced stuff. Advanced stuff that should be reserved for the character sub-forums. There are many, many, many punishes again each character's special moves, too many to number, and it's proper place is in the sub sections, and not the newbie dojo. Newbies are allowed to visit those sub-sections too, so I don't really see a need for that information to be here, when most of it will go over most peoples' heads when they're just starting out in fighting games.
  • Dark SkeletonDark Skeleton Joined: Posts: 9Registered
    You should probably stop right here. There's no way to discuss punishing without being character specific. Because every character has their own pros and cons. Like lets use hooligan as an example again. To be able to discuss basic punishing without being character specific, you could just say to punish it with fierce. But is it standing close? Standing far? Crouching? Neutral or diagonal jump? Sure I guess you could say that but then character specifics would come into play since all those moves are completely different for every character. For instance as I said before crouch fierce with Juri blows hooligan to pieces. But what about mokoto? Her crouch fierce is actually a sweep so it wouldn't hit. Vegas crouch fierce is unsafe on hit and block. Chun-li's has very few active frames so it could be hard to time. This why the sub forums exist and why this thread won't work. You're completely over looking the details and small but important bits of information which fighting games revolve around especially at mid and high level play
    Use anti-air to beat hooligan, it's that simple.

    This is offtopic, but for Juri I'd suggest using crouch strong instead of fierce, since she recovers faster and you can go for crossunder or uncross meaty cr.mk, Jrojro uses it a lot, works like a charm.
  • XthAtGAm3RGuYXXthAtGAm3RGuYX GOOMBA STOMP!!!! Joined: Posts: 1,381Registered
    But that's the kind f common sense shit you learn in the first hour of the game. Man goes into air. I have this move that goes upwards into the air. Maybe if I use it I can hit him while he's up there? Holy shit I can. We don't need a dedicated thread for people who lack common sense. While were at it we can make this a thread about how to block. And maybe how to do focus attacks. Oh wait, that's what the NSD is for, if you don't understand something you come here and ask. You get an answer, the thread dies and we all move on to the next question. What we are trying to communicate to you here is that there are such and absurd amount of variables that go into counter attacking your opponent that they need to be character specific in order to reliably research exactly what you need. Honestly how much more could you really fit into this topic? If someone uses a shoryuken, use a close attack to punish it. Groundbreaking tech right there. Or maybe if they use a fireball, use a mid to longer range attack. Sounds pretty vague doesn't it? That's what it sounds like your making this thread to be. It has no purpose and would just confuse brand new players.
    Unchallenged owner of worst user name on SRK

    AE: Juri(Main), Ken(work in progress)::::UMvC3: Felicia/Doom/Wesker::::TTT2: Lili, Kunimitsu
    Thanks to Savaii64 for DAT AV!!
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028Registered
    But that's the kind f common sense shit you learn in the first hour of the game. Man goes into air. I have this move that goes upwards into the air. Maybe if I use it I can hit him while he's up there? Holy shit I can. We don't need a dedicated thread for people who lack common sense. While were at it we can make this a thread about how to block. And maybe how to do focus attacks. Oh wait, that's what the NSD is for, if you don't understand something you come here and ask. You get an answer, the thread dies and we all move on to the next question. What we are trying to communicate to you here is that there are such and absurd amount of variables that go into counter attacking your opponent that they need to be character specific in order to reliably research exactly what you need. Honestly how much more could you really fit into this topic? If someone uses a shoryuken, use a close attack to punish it. Groundbreaking tech right there. Or maybe if they use a fireball, use a mid to longer range attack. Sounds pretty vague doesn't it? That's what it sounds like your making this thread to be. It has no purpose and would just confuse brand new players.
    this response not only assumes that all moments of vulnerability are overly obvious, it assumes the poster isn't fishing for general information. Zangief's ex green hand isn't safe but it can feel safe. same for Rose's soul spiral. Cammy's drill varies. generally, don't fuck with Abel's ultras.

    his question wasn't the most intelligent one but that's because he's not knowledgeable. yeah, there are generally a myriad of ways anything can be targeted in any game. just because he's under the false assumption that everything has "an" answer doesn't mean he's had a lapse of common sense. it means he doesn't realize it yet. perhaps he's trying to build up his sense of judgement, which I think is pretty much required when you're looking over info you know next to nothing about.
    Agreed. Perhaps a discussion on the theory behind punishing. What kind of things to look for, what type of precautions to take or whichever. But listing every punish for every move is going to take like... 10 posts at the text cap at least.

    like he said, punishment can be described in a general sense. though I think "punishment" makes us think that the opponent is doing something, fucks up, and we take advantage of the fuck up. though that's pretty much right, I don't think that gives an understanding of vulnerability.

    this is what you need to know:

    (revised a bit from Wednesday) every action, tactic, and strategy conceivable has conditions that need to be fulfilled before you can gain access to certain advantages. if you want to target something someone's doing, figure out what advantages they have at that time and why they have them. then from there you can begin your experimentation.
    example, whenever you attack you're open during the entirety of that instance. obviously you don't want to be vulnerable, but you can't change the fact that you are. it will always exist. no choice but to guard your vulnerability using the attack itself. ex. rushers use a constant stream of attacks in a safe manner that disallows punishment without previous expectations. turtles target the approach rather than the player, putting a monkey wrench in the opponent's movements unless they use an approach that's immune to the turtler's attack.

    I think that it's best to understand punishment in a general sense rather than learn which move has vulnerabilities or what X move beats Y move, because the general knowledge will continue to help you even in unfamiliar situations while those two things will help you only when the situation is standard. SRK doesn't have the kind of information compiled in such a way that you can look at one article or thread and then be good to go. the fact of the matter is you can know everything posted here and still be fucked because you have no idea how to detect and combat the tiny changes. I once had a strat I used to run that allowed Oni to dominate Sagat in spam wars whether he wanted to turtle or rush. the strat only worked because I controlled the distance well and was able to time my electric fireball with theirs. and if they didn't let me get my timing I'd bullshit them into a corner and use regular fireballs until I caught them doing something stupid. most of these players were smart enough to figure out that closing the distance makes electric fireball useless or that they could reclaim dominance in the fireball war by reacting rather than acting, but they couldn't do anything about it because I know all that stuff too and use it to trick them. and I'm not a good Oni player
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
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