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What is a person supposed to do? Sf4ae...

JazzyJJazzyJ Joined: Posts: 32Registered
Ok I've spent the last year playing this game against my friend and I thought I was pretty ok. I know basic combos, AA combos into super combos into ultra, FADC etc. after a while I wanted to start playing online cos playing my friend all the time your not really going to get much better. So I started going online and wel it was a disaster I'm talking double perfects or just pretty much getting completely dominated. It's absolutely insane! I know capcom is constantly trying to make their games more accessible but If your just your average gamer your gonna go online and then run back to the store screaming with terror.

I mean you come accross turtle players that do nothing but sit there and wait for you to attack before AA ING you or just chipping you and then happy to sit there the whole round doing nothing but crouch teching you all day. Then you get your rush down players and its even more insanity because I just can't even get a single hit in and then bang dizzy dead. Perfect. Wow! Now my problem isn't that these people are obviously much better than me but I don't feel like I'm learning anything or getting better, you know? Like for example you play COD or whatever and after 100 matches you notice you are getting better but here nothing. I know it's not fighting games either cos I did really well in games like tekken or MK9 or DOA5 etc but I just don't think my head is capable of ever getting this game. Everyone seems faster than me, people can link and combo of crouching japs and shorts all day where as I really struggle with the execution of it. I've watched 100's of hours of tutorials read pages and pages and still am none the wiser. What do I do? I play Juri, is that a hard character to start with? Any tips on how to at least feel like I'm making progress? Or is It just too late and all the people on XBL playing now have been playing for years and are just too good?

As you can tell I'm pretty frustrated but I'm seriously starting to think Mabey SF just isn't a game for me although I really enjoy it and I rly don't wanna give up. But surely going online and just getting wrecked isn't gonna really teach me anything?

Comments

  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 365Registered
    It will take a few hundred matches before your losses even begin to start feeling fair. All the theory and knowledge in the world doesn't help until you know the muscle memory to pull it off when the time is right. Fighting games are about choice, reaction, and options. If you are good at a fighting game, you know every move your opponent can make, and once you've fought enough you can guess pretty much what moves they will make.

    Not every fighting game is the same. I don't want to start a "what is a harder game" thread, but you point out CoD, MK9, and DoA5. CoD isn't a very hard first person shooter, the skill ceiling is pretty low so you can seem to do better much faster. MK9 has a dedicated block button, so all sorts of mean tricks like mixups or crossups are just removed from the picture. DoA5 I have not played, but past incarnations of DoA was more of a rock/paper/scissors response than actual fight game mechanics.

    Street Fighter is a game that carries with it about two decades of fundamentals. Everything from the amount of frames it takes Ryu to do his crouching strong, to the amount of health Zangief has - is closely monitored and known by the fans of SF. This does not mean you need to have been a fan from day one in order to compete, but you must know that this is a very competitive game, with a skill ceiling that seems to go on forever.

    It's hard to lose to people that completely out-rank you, and for that I say you should find people closer to your skill levels to play, but know that the people who are beating you with their hands behind their backs aren't doing anything crazy. They don't have any special unlocked weapons or perks to help them out, they don't have any DLC gems (in this game) to increase their craftiness, everything they are doing - you can do. You should try to meet up with those that are closer to your skill level so the little bit you are improving - can be seen. What makes CoD type games easier to feel like you're doing well is the fact that you respawn. In fighting games you can't score a lucky headshot and call that round yours, you have to score multiple "lucky" headshots, all the while dodging the bullshit they throw at you - it's a much harder game to consistently excel in.

    I wish I could say there is some trick to getting better, or that you'll start doing better - but there really isn't, and I cannot. You'll never really feel like you're getting any better at Street Fighter, you'll just look back one day and realize you can pull off a FADC xx Ultra with one hand; and that there are a lot of bad players now online.

    Practice online, make sure your combos are crispy, and always try to figure out HOW you lost.

    Street fighter is hard.
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 748Registered
    SF isn't hard and in that long winded post you didn't offer advice. Doesn't sound like you have spacing down OP or poking. You just brought up combos. Figure out with your character how to control the horizantal space/x-axis. You mentioned you play DOA5 and the spacing and whiff pinushing game is the same minus the less inputs you need to move around in SF and the inclusion of projectiles.
  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 365Registered
    SF isn't hard and in that long winded post you didn't offer advice. Doesn't sound like you have spacing down OP or poking. You just brought up combos. Figure out with your character how to control the horizantal space/x-axis. You mentioned you play DOA5 and the spacing and whiff pinushing game is the same minus the less inputs you need to move around in SF and the inclusion of projectiles.
    Street fighter is a hard game or we wouldn't bother having tournaments over it. (and I was trying to be clever by linking the series of videos I used to make please don't hate me)

    I didn't give any advice because other than the OP saying "this is hard what do I do", there is very little content in his post.

    Unless he asks how to guard fuzzy setups, or what to do on vague crossups, there isn't any advice you can give to a person who just says, "I'm losing". So I told him to pay attention to how he lost. You told him to "figure out [...] how to control horizontal space." That's pretty vague, not really advice as well.
  • JazzyJJazzyJ Joined: Posts: 32Registered
    Well I think I know at least some things I'm doing wrong. One I really need to start using Focus attacks cos right now I only use em when my opponent is dizzy and second I think I need to work on execution. What's happening right now is people are just jumping in on me and hitting me with jabs or shorts and then comboing off them. I think I'm hitting these buttons too slow or something but they always out prioritize me it seems. Plus my linking from jabs or shorts is awful. I'm pretty good with spacing and basic footsies cos I can land sweeps etc quite often but I think I need to learn some basic mixups with Juri. I'll sweep them and jump in and I either eat a reversal or they block start mashing jab and bang combo dead. I'm gonna start by going in the training mode and just practicing execution because this seems to be the hardest part for me, you just seem to have to input everything so fast it's insane!

    Also I mentioned COD as a example that everyone knows but even on harder fps like CS I mean after a while you learn the recoil or whatever and just get better. As for MK yeah you had a block button but you still had to deal with a lot of zoning and a mistake and you eat a massive combo. I'm not hear to discuss which is harder etc cos that's not the point but I will say I never played SF back in the day it was always games like Tekken etc so it's an extremely hard thing to come into SF as it is now I mean I'm not gonna give up. But is there any advice you can give, is Juri a hard character to learn? Would it be better to use Ryu or Ken? Any specific advice you have for juri? Or training mode advice. As it is now I have the dummy on auto block and am just trying to land combos...
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 3,969Registered
    The problem you're having with this game is very common now at this point in the game's life (so often that it should be in the FAQ IMO). Most people online will just wreck you completely if you're new to the game, or online environment in general. Don't worry about that. That's natural. These players have hundreds, if not thousands of matches over you. You can't reasonably expect to do that well against them in such a short period of time.

    It's also hard for people on here to help you with certain things if you don't tell us why you're losing. It's not uncommon for people not to even know why they're losing. You might be thinking you're losing to jump-in attacks, but the problem might be that your spacing is incorrect, or that you're getting baited into doing laggy moves. So start making a habit of watching your replays. Try to figure out why you lost, and what you can do differently next time. If possible, post your replays here and ask for help in analysing your matches, or specific aspects of your game (there's a thread in the stickies where people will help your with your replays). If there's a specific strategy or tactic your are losing to, try to recreate it in training mode (use the dummy record function for this) and then try to figure out what your defensive/offensive options are.

    As for you pressing the buttons too slowly, perhaps you should consider not pressing buttons in certain situations at all? If someone's got you in a frame trap situation, then no matter how fast you press those buttons in that small gap, their attacks will always beat yours unless there's some weird hitbox issue, or you are using an attack that has invincibility or armour. When you're under pressure, it's usually just best to block and prepare to tech throws. If they persist, perform a reversal (be prepared to FADC it in case they block) to keep them honest. If you don't want to risk that, mash backdash. Learn to mixup your defense. Pressing buttons and hoping your attacks hit them first is not a good strategy.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,254Registered
    is Juri a hard character to learn?
    I'd say yes, amongst the hardest
    But I main her
    Maybe I have Cammy syndrome
    « SkullGirls. »
  • JazzyJJazzyJ Joined: Posts: 32Registered
    So if you main her any advice?
  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing AAAAAA! Joined: Posts: 3,697Registered, Moderators
    Check the Juri section of the SF4:AE boards. Most character sections have sticky threads with BnBs and match up advice.

    Post videos of your matches in the gameplay critique thread. You would gain a lot more from specific advice than general advice you don't know how to apply.

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/win-a-madcatz-fightstick-11-12-12-15-beginner-match-analysis-gameplay-critique-thread.164969/
    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802Registered
    Every time I started a new fighting game online, I would go through 100s of matches before I was able to get a win (on somebody worth bragging about a win for) - and I know fundamentals of fighting games, as I've been playing them since 1993. It takes time, it takes getting over the frustration, it just takes a lot.
    Stick with it, push forward. One word of advice... big word of advice: EVERY TIME... EVERY FUCKING TIME... you get blown up or beat pretty badly, save the replay. Go back and look at it, and pause at every time you got hit... Every time you went for a mixup that failed... and figure out why. Did you get hit because you were being predictable? Throwing fireballs at the same pattern. THrowing the same poke every time? etc. Why did that mixup fail? Did you do the same high-low sequence in a row? Did you do it too slowly? etc.
    The fastest way to get better, IMO is to figure out what's making you suck and stop doing it. There's no magic formula to become better at a fighter - especially considering everybody plays differently and has different innate abilities such as reaction time or execution caps. You have to figure out your own weaknesses and stop doing them.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 828Registered
    ignore the stats, just enjoy the game.
    not good at any, mediocre at many
  • toddler316toddler316 Drunk Shit Hustler Joined: Posts: 4,332Registered
    Don't think I can handles chains of short Japs either.

    Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2
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    As the infamous Bruce Lee said: "To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person."

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  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 287Registered
    ignore the stats, just enjoy the game.
    Finally.
    If you enjoy the game you will naturally learn.
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic キコケン Joined: Posts: 1,328Registered
    learn zoning, footsies and matchup information and you should be generally good to go
    Xbox live, GFWL and GGPO:Necrotrophic
    Akuma(SF4), Chun Li(SF4,ST,3s), Ryu(SF4,ST,3S), Yang (3S, SF4), Cammy (SF4)
    youtube.com/necrotrophic
  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 365Registered
    ignore the stats, just enjoy the game.
    This to the most. If you really like fighitng games/street fighter, than read this advice and take it to heart - but don't worry too much about what it all "means", or how bet to apply it. For now, just enjoy the game. Go into training mode for a half hour or so, make sure you can get some basic Bread and Butter combos down. Perhaps set a dummy to just spam SRK so you know how fast to punish something, and what to punish with.

    But really just stick with it - the game is a slow burn to get better at. I wouldn't say Juri is overly hard to use, but she isn't one of the great "all arounders" like Cammy, Fei Long, Ryu, Ken. Juri is by no means as hard as Hakan or El Feurte though, so she'd be good to stick with.
  • omfgomfg Joined: Posts: 2,028Registered
    Ok I've spent the last year playing this game against my friend and I thought I was pretty ok. I know basic combos, AA combos into super combos into ultra, FADC etc. after a while I wanted to start playing online cos playing my friend all the time your not really going to get much better. So I started going online and wel it was a disaster I'm talking double perfects or just pretty much getting completely dominated. It's absolutely insane! I know capcom is constantly trying to make their games more accessible but If your just your average gamer your gonna go online and then run back to the store screaming with terror.

    I mean you come accross turtle players that do nothing but sit there and wait for you to attack before AA ING you or just chipping you and then happy to sit there the whole round doing nothing but crouch teching you all day. Then you get your rush down players and its even more insanity because I just can't even get a single hit in and then bang dizzy dead. Perfect. Wow! Now my problem isn't that these people are obviously much better than me but I don't feel like I'm learning anything or getting better, you know? Like for example you play COD or whatever and after 100 matches you notice you are getting better but here nothing. I know it's not fighting games either cos I did really well in games like tekken or MK9 or DOA5 etc but I just don't think my head is capable of ever getting this game. Everyone seems faster than me, people can link and combo of crouching japs and shorts all day where as I really struggle with the execution of it. I've watched 100's of hours of tutorials read pages and pages and still am none the wiser. What do I do? I play Juri, is that a hard character to start with? Any tips on how to at least feel like I'm making progress? Or is It just too late and all the people on XBL playing now have been playing for years and are just too good?

    As you can tell I'm pretty frustrated but I'm seriously starting to think Mabey SF just isn't a game for me although I really enjoy it and I rly don't wanna give up. But surely going online and just getting wrecked isn't gonna really teach me anything?
    it's most likely that you feel that way because you're weaker than they are, not because of any particular playstyle. if a player's just better than you it doesn't really matter what playstyle he uses as long as he knows how to make it work and you don't know how to stop it. knowledge on playstyles can't hurt though so I'll give info about the two below.

    anyway, SF4's not the typical fighter. I don't know what it is that Capcom did to this game, but learning by sheer muscle memory is harder than ever here. I think all you need to get better in the game is a change in mindset.
    defense: I'll never let that shit happen again.
    offense: I'll make this shit work no matter what.

    those two things force you to focus on what's going on, which is the issue. you don't get it.

    turtlers generally need 3 sets of tools: 1) tools that allow them to escape confrontation (ex. backdash, ashura warp), 2) tools that shut down offensive approaches preferably with attacks (ex. anti-air normals), and 3) tools that allow them to get some extra damage whenever they wish (ex. yoga sniper) in order to reclaim life lead and finish troublesome opponents. a turtler who has these 3 things is dangerous as hell. thing is though, at low level battles, one of those sets is either running on empty or has like.. one tool in them. you need a whole tool system in order to fulfill the objective. for example, if yoga sniper is all an opponent have in their #3 toolbox, then all you need to do is guard high when they're trying to get extra damage and you've nullified their ability to get extra damage. now they're down to two tool sets. #2 is usually the one they've got plenty of tools for. they've got the anti air, air to air, wakeup defense, fireball counters, etc. thing is though, they tend to rely on 2 instead of 1. thing is, that's a mistake. no amount of defenses will keep you absolutely safe, and in fighters there aren't any instances where escaping isn't safer than actively defending. if a turtler has a way to escape without punishment, he should do it.

    as for rushdown players, I don't have their tool sets defined as well as turtlers. but what I do know is that to beat any strategy, you have to make it fruitless. a rushdown player wants to get in your face and fuck you up, period. I haven't considered what conditions that includes, but generally they want to pressure you all the time. close the distance and deal combo damage, "win" from afar (ex fireballs), shit like that. there's even rushdown players that do more defending than attacking. that said, there's one clear difference between a turtler and a defender: a turtler wants to move away from the opponent, the rusher towards. what you have to do to fuck their day up is attack their approach and find comfort within their pressure. if they can't pressure you they can't get away with their bullshit and put you off-balance. they want to catch you off-balance, defending against shit in situations you're not accustomed to, etc. so that they can get closer to you to hurt you. if you're attacking their approach then that means they're taking damage whenever they come close to you. to get a better idea of it, don't think "I'm attacking him", think "I'm attacking the space he's trying to occupy"
    see ya buddy

    even if you die, I'll kill you... :badboy:
    <3 don't let life fool you. everything is black or white
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