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Hakans Options after Knockdowns AND WHY DDT-Setups are not as usefull as the most seem to belive..

reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 984Registered
Hi there i just want to make a statement about options after a Knockdown and why DDT-Setups (glorifight by the most) are not as good as they seem to be!! The Articel is technicaly and you need time to understand it. I realy hope you guys dont just read the title but the whole thing..

At first take a look on Hakans Knockdowns 12 in Total there are no 13 or less like 11 its 12 Knockdowns with diffrent timings or spacing!!

Slide+Press
360+HP/EX
360+MP
360+LP
F+HK
Ultra
Slide+Oil
Airgrab
c.HK(sweep)
DDT a.k.a. 360+K
Backthrow
Throw


Lets get this streight i use DDT Setups (a lot!!) but i would never use a DDT after a Slide+Press except when im at least 90% Certain that my opponent will jump/Backdash/Kneel

Why?

lets see:

Slide+Press

Options after:
  1. LK-Oil <-- "+1" - "-1" ***
  2. F+LK // MP--> Ambigiuos Crossup with HK
  3. DDT-Setup
  4. Dash-MeetySlide
1. you get a Oilup and hafe the following options after
  • Block and see (maybe they try to catch you with a SRK)
  • EX-OilRocket (grabs all moves that arent aireborn or invincible)
  • Jab,Jab -->oilrocket on Block or Jab, Jab , F+LK ..> SLIDE (reset to Slidepressoptions)
  • Focus Level1 Dash Jab Jab (read the text above)
2. you get a hard to block Crossup that avoides the most attacks with the following options
  • Jab,Jab -->oilrocket on Block or Jab, Jab , F+LK ..> SLIDE ( reset to Slidepressoptions)
  • Early HK --> HP-Grab!// c.lp.lpslide
  • Mk/LK --> Grab
3. High Risk high Reward after all DDT there is the MK-Oilup for free the damage is hughe and the positioning great
  • Neutraljump MK-DDT
    • Oilup MK
    • Oilup LK --> Meety Jab Jab ect pp
4. Dash MeetySlide only gets beet from Reversals with Invincibility
  • HP-Grab/Ex-Grab
  • Jab Jab ect pp
  • LK-DDT ON JUMP you can train yourself to react!!
so that are 4 of the best Options so which one is the way to go and WHY
1. is a free oil and a great positioning go for it when you know your enemy and can predict that he trys to reversal or just knees there and let himself grab!!
2. thats the way to go since it works on almost all charakters has the least risk and the highest reward (reset and do it again with at least 270 damage)
3. only do this if you KNOW your enemy and that he will jump/Backdash or Kneel
4. thats the way to go if your enemy hase no reversal option that works and if he can punish/evade option 2
Why is DDT setup not as good as 2.. its easy to punish you can mix it up but the reward is less then option 2 you hafe much more options after and you most certainly can do better stuff close
Sometimes you just KNOW your enemy is afraid and will evade it then go for it!!
but good player can reakt on the startup and punish it badly
So why does it feel so good online?
PPL dont know the matchup they think they can evade it by crouching they dont know hakan and will fall for it.. yes it works but only against ppl how dont know it better..
thats a good point but i would not train myself to abuse a disablity of other players i would train myself to be a great hakan and try to use allways the best option with the most reward with the lessest risk!!
thats option 2...
so when to DDT.. NOT AFTER SLIDE+PRESS becouse there are much better mixups except for charakters that can not be saveslidet AND crossuped .. i dont know such a bad charakter..
of course if your enemy allways backdash like some dalsim players.. go for it once in a while but dont make this to your main tool !!
Hakan hase some Knockdowns without many Options like
360+HP/EX
i know only tree options here
Options after:
  1. Save-LK-Oil
  2. Dash(oiled)-->Savejump
  3. DDT-Setup
1. not much advantage except oil in there..
2. against some charakters its a save jump the followups are the same like Option2 with Slide+Press if its a savejump GO FOR IT!!
3. thats the only option left here with aggressiv potential
  • F+MP --> HK-DDT (Catches all 3 avade options)
  • F+MP--> F+MK (save meety)
  • F+MP-->Dash(Pause) GRAB
  • F+MP-->Dash(pause) Jab Jab
going for the DDT is still Risky the setup i mentioned is the one i searched and found by myself its a good one but feel free to change it with a LK/MK Setup if you think your enemy can reakt on the HK startuptime..
its still a bad choise if you can savejump but if not.. i dont see much else you can do here that dont gain the mixup you get after the F+MP
so the DDT setup hase its meening but if you try it after a slide its a bad gamble where you could hafe used much better options

im starting with this and adding the best options after each knockdown later on
but as seen in this article the most usefull setup WILL ALWAYS BE a SAVEJUMP
It has the most viable options and its the best to Lockdown a Enemy and hakan is a Grabler he will gain much advantage by locking down.. so savejumps are the first choise over all other setups after a Knockdown.. please keep this in mind

if you can use a savejump and can not predict your opponent USE IT and no DDT or other mixups

***:yeah thats right Hakan can hafe frameadvantage after the Slide+Press (test it against Zangief! He can only catch you with a Ultra if you execute the LK-Oil airthight) but its hard like hell (can not be bufered or mashed) the most time it will be -2 / -3 but still safe enugh!!
How to play Zangief. A Zangief Tutorial:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189468

Comments

  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    Good stuff, reaper. I was actually thinking about this the other day. I like where you're going with it.
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • wewk584wewk584 Pad Warrior Joined: Posts: 41Registered
    Yeah.. I fell into the trap once 2012 came out.. i dunno if there were easy setups for ddt for ae but i always tried to time it ( and rarely caught anyone.) Now I can land it 100% of the time with nj mk dive. I knew reversals could beat it.. but not simple (and mostly safe) stuff like back dashing, etc. And more and more people know this because its so easy to ddt now
    . Ive gone back to what I did in super/ae and pepper in nj, then something different to bait a reaction.. Potentially having to waste a few knockdowns to learn the opponent... The more setups you have the better (ddt and otherwise) to make it so they dont have one easy answer.

    Nice breakdown Reaper
    http://www.vidouf.com/video/joyeux-noel.html <-Killian tries to out troll Ono
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    reaper i have a list of what i called 'multiple choice vortex' in my hakan bible.
    its basicaly setups that gives you differemt mix-up options just like what you've listed out after a knockdown.
    I am sure a lot of the hard-core hakans here will agree (inc myself) that DDT(dive) is never the best to do especially if you have safe-slides and safe-j.hk as options.

    Though i might just elaborate the hp/ex.rocket multiple choice vortex for you for now.
    here are all the mix-up options in my books, plus ur f.mp choices:

    HP/EX.rocket > options

    1. lk.oil
    2. lk.oil > f.mp (whiff) > ex.rocket (- can also walk forward a tiny bit and do.f.mp after oil, for it to HIT, as a mix up.)
    3. lk.oil > f.dash > c.lk (OS U2 for n.jump)
    4. c.mp > lp.slide (+3 on block)**
    5. c.mp > hk.dive
    6. f.dash > tiny-pause > hk.dive
    7. f.dash > hp.slide (+3 on block)**
    8. (oiled) f.dash > safe-j.hk
    9. f.mp > hk/ex.dive (catch all)
    10. f.mp > f.mk (safe meaty)
    11. f.mp > f.dash > tiny-pause > s.lp/throw
    12. c.lk/s.lp > hp.slide (+0 on block)
    13. other uncrouchable dives.

    **safe-slide +3 on block = 3f dp will be a blocked as reversal, and that if you normal.rocket straight after the slide-block, beats opponents 3f+ moves ie c.tech/s.throw.
    omg its so wet.
  • 3xfun_wtf3xfun_wtf Joined: Posts: 23Registered
    I just wanted to ask... are the 12 knockdowns listed all considered hard knockdowns?? cause i'm just confused at what to consider Hakans moves as hard knockdowns cause I usually fail to time my crossups/oil/whatever...

    or it doesn't matter hard knockdown or not.. its just all about timing
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