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FDNC (/FADNC/DNC) technics and discussions

yakult99yakult99 shaaaaaJoined: Posts: 209Registered
just thought i created a new thread on this, fresh for the year of oil 2012 for hakan :)

Here is a list of ways that you can do FDNC consistently, with back-dash for the invincible advantage:

[from 1p side, and OILED]

1. FOCUS > :b: :b: > any-normals
-good for holding focus to fish for hit-tanking timing and then to DNC

2. :b:+FOCUS > :b: + any-normals
-good for "instant Focus" to DNC, like wake-up FDNC

3. :b: > FOCUS > :b: + any-normals
-good for footsie and reaction on jump ins

no.2 is actually derived from this jap method for the 'quick back(or forward)-focus-dash' technic, i am listing it out as a seperate as for hakan it becomes b.FDNC~s.mk:
4. :b:+FOCUS > :b:+FOCUS
-s.mk comes out after parry.
-this is good technic for after a slide-press > lk.oil setup :)

so what technic are you using that has most consistency?
and any other good situation to use any perticular methods?

eg. what are ur input to execute these combos?: (looking at SamuraDrew 8-) )

[ FA3 (crumble) ~ f.dash > f.mp > FADNC~f.mp > hp.slide/hk.dive ]

or

[ s.lp > s.lp > f.lk > FDNC~s.lp > s.lp > f.lk > hp.slide/hk.dive ]

or

[ f.lk > FDNC~f.lk > FDNC~f.lk > hp.slide/hk.dive]
omg its so wet.

Comments

  • andywuzcandywuzc Joined: Posts: 127Registered
    I lately found out a good way to do this. That is staying in a crouch defense position( down-back). When you see people jumping at you or likely to poke something, just press back once. You'll immediately absorb and dash out. If you add any normals after back input, the opponent will eat the normal.
    It seems that FADC st.HK stuff a lot of stuff and will counter poke jabs and low attack. A bit similar to HP spear. Maybe st.mk will be even better.
    Of course after the move, it is possible to rocket them.
  • SynKyllerSynKyller TFA Founder Joined: Posts: 308Registered
    I got a question. how do one actually FADnC properly? Ive been using option #1 (1. FOCUS > :b: :b: > any-normals ). I never even considered or knew about the other options.
    SSFIVAE: Hakan | SFxT:King/Dudley/Hwoang/??? (Still trying to find a 4th)
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    I got a question. how do one actually FADnC properly? Ive been using option #1 (1. FOCUS > :b: :b: > any-normals ). I never even considered or knew about the other options.

    eg. if you are doing footsie, them you are obviously moving your stick forward and back etc. so its good to utilise the 3rd method for easy reaction:
    :b: > FOCUS > :b: + any-normals

    but at situations where you want 'instant' focus to absorb and DNC, then its the jap way.
    eg in some of SamuraiDrews videos where he 'parry' opponents jump-in into a s.lp, and looks like he barely moved from his standing position (didnt even see the 'dash'), i am sure his doing the 2nd method, in this case its:
    :b:+FOCUS > :b:(hold) + s.lp

    its really situaltional dependent sometimes. but the thing if you can always stick to one perticular form then its best.
    after a long practice i m now more accustomed with the jap method for hakan, simply for the instant absorb technic thats so effective.
    timing is the key for any methods.

    For those who dont know, all character even for hakan (dry), you can always do this 4th method to focus-dash-forward/backward at quickest instance.
    its good for wake-up absorb fireball/hit and dash back; and or good for footsie to absorb fireball and go-in . This is [ :b:+FOCUS > :b:+FOCUS ].
    You can do it so quick that your character looks just like dashing without seeing the focus motion... its a dashing with 1 absorb armor :smokin: .
    omg its so wet.
  • Samurai DrewSamurai Drew Joined: Posts: 1,263Registered
    Haha, why are you looking at me here? XD

    Actually you're right, I do use that method for parrying Yakult, I didn't even realise! But yes, it's FAR easier to use the Korean (is it Japanese??) method: For f.mp criscos you would just reverse it, so > mp > fadc >mp. So just consider the FADC as an extra f.mp except you're using the mk button as well.

    Makes cr.mk crisco a lot easier too, if you start the first cr.mk at down forward, and end the second one in down forward. Actually managed three in row using this method when playing about with the reset vid. Trying to do it with a quick double dash is much more difficult.

    Same goes for the rest..f.lk crisco is basically: > lk...> fadc...>lk.

    You hit forward and focus at the same time. You're hitting three forward motions. No mashing. Mashing messes you up. There's a rhythm to it.

    If you're doing f.lk FADC into st.lp...it's slightly trickier. Treat st.lp as f.lp. Just hit forward slightly before the lp and you'll be good!

    Also something useful, although maybe on a higher level, is using normals to buffer backdash cancelled normals. So if you press lk with backdash, and then f.mp, you'll get the backdash cancelled f.mp. Could be really useful when it comes to spacing, but it's pretty advanced stuff.

    Hope all this helps!
    www.youtube.com/sudafreekan - Hakan Technician #1
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    Here is a list of ways that you can do FDNC consistently, with back-dash for the invincible advantage:
    By this do you simply mean the armor? I've heard talk in multiple places of Hakan having legitimate invincibility on his parry.
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    Dagon.. I m not talking about focus absorbing been invincible..
    The invincible frames are from b.dash, after focus.
    So in general if u can always do b.FDNC instead of forward-dash, it will be best as it offer the extra evasive option (from back-dash) after focusing one hit.
    This is the advantage.
    omg its so wet.
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    Dagon.. I m not talking about focus absorbing been invincible..
    The invincible frames are from b.dash, after focus.
    So in general if u can always do b.FDNC instead of forward-dash, it will be best as it offer the extra evasive option (from back-dash) after focusing one hit.
    This is the advantage.
    So am I understanding you correctly in saying that Hakan's backdash has some invincibility frames!? When during the dash?? O_O
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    Er.. It's not just Hakan.. All ssf4 character has back-dash invincible frames. Just some characters like Chun and Rose has longer frame than others for them to abuse this more than others. Hakan when oiled I think it's up there with these 2 bitchs :)
    omg its so wet.
  • SoutheasternoilSoutheasternoil Joined: Posts: 187Registered
    Wait, some characters have more invincibility frames than others!? That explains alot!!! Anyway, if I'm not wrong, Hakan's normals also inherits the invincibility from the backdash, so if we cancel the dash in the first few frame, the startup of the normal would also have some invincibillity as well? Or am I actually wrong on that part?
  • Samurai DrewSamurai Drew Joined: Posts: 1,263Registered
    Wait, some characters have more invincibility frames than others!? That explains alot!!! Anyway, if I'm not wrong, Hakan's normals also inherits the invincibility from the backdash, so if we cancel the dash in the first few frame, the startup of the normal would also have some invincibillity as well? Or am I actually wrong on that part?

    Backdashing into a normal is actually a very very good wakeup tool. It might seem advanced, in fact not enough Hakans, but it's great at turning defense into attack. So you're right you get the invincibility from the backdash, and cancel into an attack. I almost always go with backdash jab, or focus backdash jab. Seriously guys, some of you really need to get this down! You'll be amazed at how effective it is.
    www.youtube.com/sudafreekan - Hakan Technician #1
  • DagonDagon World's worst throw-tech-er Joined: Posts: 839Registered
    Thanks for the clarification on invincible backdashes! Definitely clears up some weird goings-on that I've seen!
    "Hakan is for the dedicated." - Samurai Drew
    Super Street Fighter Four: Arcade Edition version Two Thousand and Twelve: Chun-Li/Dan
    XBL: EOT 00000100
  • Samurai DrewSamurai Drew Joined: Posts: 1,263Registered
    So Hakan's highest possible damage using 2 bars seems to be Jump HK > f.mp > FADC > f.mp > HK Dive. Add on EX dive for about 522 damage. Probably best for punishing whiffed command grabs but there's no risk with trying this normally as it works as a good frametrap if blocked and lets you continue pressure!
    www.youtube.com/sudafreekan - Hakan Technician #1
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    yea i was testing that a few weeks ago and trying to get a high dmg setup after a FA crumble.

    the other one i had slightly lesser dmg as an alt option is:
    [ (oiled) FA(lv3) ~ f.DC > f.mp > FADC~b.s.hp > lp.dive ]
    -lk.dive can be replaced with a hp.rocket for alt resets/dmg.
    omg its so wet.
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    I lately found out a good way to do this. That is staying in a crouch defense position( down-back). When you see people jumping at you or likely to poke something, just press back once. You'll immediately absorb and dash out. If you add any normals after back input, the opponent will eat the normal.
    It seems that FADC st.HK stuff a lot of stuff and will counter poke jabs and low attack. A bit similar to HP spear. Maybe st.mk will be even better.
    Of course after the move, it is possible to rocket them.

    andy so is this how it work:

    :db: > FOCUS > :b:

    doesnt seem to work for me tho ><~
    omg its so wet.
  • ZentraediAce92ZentraediAce92 Joined: Posts: 43Registered
    I found this rather stupid method, but it is an accurate one where you will never fail in getting an instant parry/ backdash IF you don't mess up the execution which is what makes this a stupid method.
    It has however helped me do some of Hakan's more difficult FADNC combos, such as oiled j. HK, f. mp, FADNC st. mp, f. lk, heavy slidexxsplash which does great damage for only half of the super bar and is true combo.

    ANYWAY the inputs are:
    :qcf: , :qcf: FOCUS > Normal
    :qcb: , :qcb: FOCUS > Normal

    The benefits of doing it this way are that the dash is based on the button press (mp/mk), not directional inputs, which makes a psuedo-command dash with armor that comes out instantly (works with every character). I thought the super motions were unnecessary inputs when I discovered this, but I found the armored dash won't come out any other way.
    Regardless though, if you mess this input up or aren't comfortable with the super motion, it's best to avoid it. There are big costs to messing it mid FADNC combo.
    side note:
    You can also repeatedly input the super/ reverse super motions and plink the FA inputs with a normal for an easier to perform parry (with super meter it looks like you're fishing also).

    In response to the three combos yakult99 listed in the OP:
    For any f. lk FADNC combo, I normally plink (f. lk and focus), (fwd + normal)
    For any f. mp FADNC combo (with the exception of the one I mentioned), I usually just do it manually, I have so much trouble doing any simpler method and accidentally cancel into a rocket or dive. Does anyone have tips on which method works best for FADCing f. mp? I just substitute cr. mk instead, it's a lot easier.
    andy so is this how it work:

    :db: > FOCUS > :b:

    doesnt seem to work for me tho ><~

    Sorry, I know you asked someone else, but if you don't return to neutral before the second back motion, the backdash won't come out. It reads down back and back as the same direction, back.
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    thanks zentraediace~

    i spend some time and tried your method, it works!
    but really need to train up to get it perfectly tho, otherwise slide comes out.

    i am already accustomed to using the 3 tap method for FDC combo methods so to avoid mix execution errors i stopped training your method after a while.
    It'll be very useful for ppl that is still experimenting the executions tho. good find! :)


    To sum it up for this post so far, a good hakan should have the following timing and technics:

    1. instant FDNC
    2. charged FDNC
    3. combo FDNC

    doesnt matter what method you use, as long as you can execute in these 3 situation your are Super Saiyan lol
    omg its so wet.
  • yakult99yakult99 shaaaaa Joined: Posts: 209Registered
    i think this might have been mentioned before, but here it is again for the thread.

    To do the "crouch Focus instant c.lk", the best way to do is forward dash, rather than back dash cancel.
    this is due to the 'down back' crouch position, and for the instant focus and dash part, unfortunately there isnt any real fast shortcuts rather than going to neutral from downback, back direction with focus, neutral and back direction, then to down back c.lk.

    Now if you do it with forward dash it, the first part can really be 'instant', as you'll be doing:

    :db: (defending) , then instantly you can do :f:+FOCUS > :f:>:df:+lk


    GG
    omg its so wet.
  • ZentraediAce92ZentraediAce92 Joined: Posts: 43Registered
    I'm not sure this belongs here, but the thread title lists DNC as well soo I suppose this counts.
    With Hakan is oiled you can use the meaty spacing DNC'd normals gain to position yourself for a crossup on certain crouching characters.

    opponent is crouching:
    close DNC cr. lk x3 on hit, fwd jump crossup mk, [insert preferred combo or mixup depending on whether it was blocked or not]
    -tested on Cody and Ryu-
    On block, you can do the same crossup after 3 blocked close DNC cr. lks against Ryu, for some characters 2 slower chained blocked cr. lks space you out for the crossup

    Can also be setup from a FADNC combo such as- [f+mpxxFADNC, cr. lk x3, f.j crossup mk]

    I guess this could be used in mindgames and one would airgrab, j. mp-slide, or crossup mk on reaction after you've trained them to not dp after chained cr. lks which isn't hard to do at all.

    I haven't been able to set this up on wakeup or any combination of normals without the DNC which is the only reason I listed it here if it's misplaced.
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