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Dance with the Claw: Vega Match-up Guide/Discussion

SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~*Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
We need to be organized, lets just leave the comments about the matchu guide in another topic.... That way it wont be 2348203984 pages long.

So i suggest we create a match up thread and another topic that helps updating the match up thread WITHOUT filling it with non related posts.

Any help is much appreciated. This thread is meant for things like:

- questions regarding the matchups
- tipps/extra info you want to share
- mistakes you want to point out
- discussion
"You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
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Comments

  • ElMouchoLocoElMouchoLoco Joined: Posts: 292Registered
    Vs cammy:

    People say that this is an easy matchup because cammy don't have and overhead and if you just block and counter his jump-ins with ST she will be forced to take risks coming to you...
    ...but, so far i know, if she does spiral arrow up close and you block it, you can punish that, but if she does from her max distance she is near 0 frame advantage at the end of the move, and she usually either grab or shoryuken.
    His aerial cannon strike, the attack going diagonally down is the same, you block and she either grab or shoryuken.

    How can we suppose to turtle and take the lead if she can get in and poke and tick throw fighting close, wich is, so far i know, the worst thing for vega?
    Rely only in teching all the trow she may use just after a move, or one c.lk and throw, or two, or cannon strike on the ground and then throw?
    Europe -> Spain -> A Corunha
    PlayStation3 Network id: "Ryoga_P_Chan"
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    Option teching against her is very painful. I found out the hard way today. Random FA's and Cannon Spikes during blockstrings lol
    Every time she gets a knockdown she puts you into a 50/50 game. Cannon Spike or throw. I ate 3 Cannon Spikes in a row today.
    Really, if she gets close you are going to get raped if you don't watch out.
    I beat a Cannon Strike with neutral jump hk today, because I predicted she would do it after lk lp lp or something. Find out the players pattern and knock her out of it if she keep doing it.
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • JozhearJozhear Densetsu no Jozhear Joined: Posts: 5,577Registered
    Spiral Arrow is the worst part about this matchup. It's almost a free get-in-on Vega card, considering it's tough to punish at the right times (and it sucks when you're caught standing). Knowing how liberal most Cammys are with Cannon Spike, my first instinct is to always, always be ready for a grab. Otherwise, if she's up close, I'm blocking low. At least this way, the first Cannon Spike she uses is a free sweep (and get-away) for me. If I get grabbed, that's fine. Less damage than a Cannon Spike, and they both result in a knockdown. It's a less-than-desirable trade-off, but grabs are easier to deal with than Cannon Spikes. If they start grabbing alot, then catch them off guard with an ST, or just back dash and c.mp.

    Aside from that the airborne Cannon Spike is also a bad part of this matchup. She can use it to go over top of low pokes and begin jump-in offense early because she can dive out of any part of her forward jump arc. Unless she manages to combo however this situation basically becomes the same as the one above. Most Cammys like to follow up with another Cannon Spike in this situation, so be careful. If you block more, you can easily punish Cannon Spikes with EX FBA and sweeps to discourage her from doing them, because Cannon Spikes stuff jump-outs and basically everything.

    When you see Cammy Hooligan grab, try and meet her air-to-air. This is basically a free hit... Use j. fierce or j. rh to take advantage of her lack of height. If you have a height advantage when you go air-to-air like this you'll own her everytime. Otherwise, don't just sit there. Expect the sweep, and just move out of the way. Barcelona to the other side of the screen if you have to: but she can punish this if she cancels the flight of the grab with a whiff, then Cannon Spikes. Spin Knuckle seems unimportant in this matchup, but I'm sure that a Cammy could use it to go right through a c. mp and catch you off guard. It probably wouldn't hit you in that time cause I'm positive c. mp recovery < Spin Knuckle startup.

    As far as footsies are concerned, Cammy can hang with Vega with pokes and the use of Spiral Arrow. Her ground game is threatening for this reason, so try and stick to c. mp, st. forward for really long pokes that keep her from being able to poke you back. Air-to-air she has some pretty decent moves but not compared to Vega. I've never been air-thrown in a match by Cammy so take advantage of that.

    Cammy can also deal out HUGE combos with meter, that can also end in an ultra. For this reason, stay away at all costs ( and always be ready for a cannon spike) because if she hits you with one she can combo straight into an ultra for huuuuge damage. Oh and her focus attack is really good at catching low attacks: be frugal with heavy pokes when it's crunch time, as one focus could mean 2 cannon strikes, a close fierce, cannon spike, and an ultra... lethal to the max.

    This matchup is pretty confusing... on paper it looks like given the right player, Cammy can destroy Vega. however I've never run into a Cammy like that, so until then, be cautious in this matchup is the best advice I can give.
  • ADVIIIADVIII ParryFiend Joined: Posts: 320Registered
    I need strats against chun li and what to look out for. Anyone have any pointers?
    Do Something About It?
    SFIV:Dictator,Vega,Fei Long
    SSFIV: Cody, Juri, Vega, Dictator, Fei Long, Dee Jay
    Tekken 6: Asuka, Leo
    Avatar by Aberz
  • bebop3000bebop3000 Viva la Vega Joined: Posts: 1,187Registered
    Cool. Good work Sasaki. Sorry I never really updated strategies; sorta slipped my mind over time.
    :woot: THE SKY IS THE LIMIT :woot:
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    Cool. Good work Sasaki. Sorry I never really updated strategies; sorta slipped my mind over time.

    Well listen, you see... All I'm doing is writing the precious info we all gathered, including YOURS, together. What people should really appreciate is guys like you who actually provide the info :'D

    Thanks to all of you who contributed and are contributing right now!
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • Unknown Joined:
    Well listen, you see... All I'm doing is writing the precious info we all gathered, including YOURS, together. What people should really appreciate is guys like you who actually provide the info :'D

    Thanks to all of you who contributed and are contributing right now!
    I'm think i'm tearing up.

    Yup. Definitely tearing up. If i blink, tears will flow down my cheeks like an everlasting rain
  • mangojoemangojoe God Complex Joined: Posts: 265Registered
    I havent faced many cammys that i would call GOOD (none of my local players or any G1's) but the one move i use more in this fight than in any other is 3K flip. After a blocked spiral arrow, shes usually either throwing or spiking. A well timed flip beats both. Just dont get too predictable with them since we all know the dangers that come from using the flip. All it takes is for her to do nothing or dash after and you can end up eating cl.hp xx CS fadc CS fadc Ultra and that hurts.
    "Playing Vega is like being in a war where everyone wants bazookas and shit. But you're the crazy motherfucker with the knife. Make it happen." ~ BlaqSkillZ
    Avy by Savaii64
  • hangeerhangeer Anti-Shoryuken Joined: Posts: 87Registered
    I havent faced many cammys that i would call GOOD (none of my local players or any G1's) but the one move i use more in this fight than in any other is 3K flip. After a blocked spiral arrow, shes usually either throwing or spiking. A well timed flip beats both. Just dont get too predictable with them since we all know the dangers that come from using the flip. All it takes is for her to do nothing or dash after and you can end up eating cl.hp xx CS fadc CS fadc Ultra and that hurts.

    oh no that is a horrible move against her. even you did it for the first time you are risking it. on blocked spiral arrow it is a free punish of your choice, if you have meter that is a free cr mp to ex fba. you can punish blocked spiral arrow as soon as the tip of her toe hits you. you don't be hurt for the rest of the animation if you start to punish. this was point out by various vega in the cammy thread a while ago.
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Vs cammy:

    People say that this is an easy matchup because cammy don't have and overhead and if you just block and counter his jump-ins with ST she will be forced to take risks coming to you...
    ...but, so far i know, if she does spiral arrow up close and you block it, you can punish that, but if she does from her max distance she is near 0 frame advantage at the end of the move, and she usually either grab or shoryuken.
    His aerial cannon strike, the attack going diagonally down is the same, you block and she either grab or shoryuken.

    How can we suppose to turtle and take the lead if she can get in and poke and tick throw fighting close, wich is, so far i know, the worst thing for vega?
    Rely only in teching all the trow she may use just after a move, or one c.lk and throw, or two, or cannon strike on the ground and then throw?


    If she is at MAX distance you can FA on reaction. It will only hit once. Play the player not the character. Look for when they are trying to zone you. After a couple failed attempts to jump in at you they may try to hit you with a properly spaced Drill, be ready for it if you see her pacing back and forth or if she is in her zone.

    I play her as a thrid and Drill (depending on LK, MK, or HK) can travel from about 3/4 screen (HK) and little less then 1/2 screen (LK). Like I said at these distances it will only hit once tho, so FA it a good answer. Just make sure to have a combo ready to maximize on the offensive.

    And yes she can get in close and a good Cammy player will mix it up but Vegas big weakness is Cross-ups (among other things) and her cross-up, j.LK, sucks balls as far as cross-ups are concerned. She really shouldn't be able to pester you too much with it.

    As for the last part of your post...(bold) thats just the game man. Thats really not on Vega...its on you.

    What your saying is, "if the other player gets in my head wtf am I supposed to do? " Everybody can mix it up so you've got to deal with the mix up...its a guessing game.

    I only mean to be constructive so don't take it the wrong way but that last part (bold) can apply to any character who is mixing it up on you.

    Oh ya, Sasaki, thanks for taking the time to make this new thread. Very cool of you.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • DontdodatDontdodat I know u want to Joined: Posts: 388Registered
    VS RUFUS

    I would of thought Rufus was a or 4-6ish or even matchup. Whenever I play against Rufus, dive kick gets shut down by standing and jumping normals. Claw's crouching normals have the range and speed to beat every one of Rufus' normals. Is there something in the matchup that the Rufus players I've played aginst are missing?
  • mangojoemangojoe God Complex Joined: Posts: 265Registered
    oh no that is a horrible move against her. even you did it for the first time you are risking it. on blocked spiral arrow it is a free punish of your choice, if you have meter that is a free cr mp to ex fba. you can punish blocked spiral arrow as soon as the tip of her toe hits you. you don't be hurt for the rest of the animation if you start to punish. this was point out by various vega in the cammy thread a while ago.
    Isnt spiral arrow safe at max range? Meaning any punish you try to dish out can be punished itself. If it isnt, ive been playing overly cautious for no damn reason.

    I was under the impression that at max range (which i thought wasnt that far away as long as she doesnt use hk arrow) was safe because every time ive tried to stick out a poke after a blocked one i usually get dp'd. In my situation 3K flip usually works for me but like i said i have limited cammy matchup experience so i wouldnt be surprised if i was mistaking.
    "Playing Vega is like being in a war where everyone wants bazookas and shit. But you're the crazy motherfucker with the knife. Make it happen." ~ BlaqSkillZ
    Avy by Savaii64
  • VastagoVastago Architect and Fighter Joined: Posts: 235Registered
    Ok so we are officially talking about cammy now...

    Give me a couple of hours to be able to gather the info and resume it (and of course test some stuff....)
    ...Form follows Function...
  • Ken BKen B Best looking Vega...(player) Joined: Posts: 315Registered
    Is this where I congratulate your thread? Anyways, great stuff Sasaki, I'll put this to use immediately.....!
    ..............I got skills I can't speak of,
    Things I've seen will chase me to the grave.....
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    Thanks :'D
    I will add nicovideo matches for each matchup later.
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    *push*

    I need more help. Based on the info (the links) we have in the thread, who would like to write the Zangief matchup strategy?
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • RizhallRizhall 殺意はhot-hot!! Joined: Posts: 1,085Registered
    I'll gladly do Akuma, if you give me some time.
    Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus he is master of his enemy's fate.
  • ElMouchoLocoElMouchoLoco Joined: Posts: 292Registered
    As for the last part of your post...(bold) thats just the game man. Thats really not on Vega...its on you.

    Everybody can mix it up so you've got to deal with the mix up...its a guessing game.
    You are right, but you are right because i wrote it the wrong way (that seems good in my head, but i couldn't explain myself).

    Was i was trying to say is that i don't understand how i can win a cammy by turtling, and that's my fault too, because live you can defend and tech and so on... but online the offensive one has advantage because of lag, and turtling usually leads to FAIL and lose the online match.

    Your advice to FA if a see a spiral arrow is good. Somehow i hardly use FA and that's my fault... i started FA fishing and it worked great, but it only takes one blocked spiral arrow for she to start his poke and grab mixup.

    It seems that she wants vega to ST or jump after a blocked cannon drill so she can shoryuken.

    The fact is that tnks to your advice and Jozhear's about what to do after a spiral arrow, i am better at this matchup, and i'm starting to improve in the right direction. Thanks to both.
    Europe -> Spain -> A Corunha
    PlayStation3 Network id: "Ryoga_P_Chan"
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    Yes, I'll leave that one open then, Riz. And I trust you already have a lot of experience based on what I saw of you playing against J.R.
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    You are right, but you are right because i wrote it the wrong way (that seems good in my head, but i couldn't explain myself).

    Was i was trying to say is that i don't understand how i can win a cammy by turtling, and that's my fault too, because live you can defend and tech and so on... but online the offensive one has advantage because of lag, and turtling usually leads to FAIL and lose the online match.

    Your advice to FA if a see a spiral arrow is good. Somehow i hardly use FA and that's my fault... i started FA fishing and it worked great, but it only takes one blocked spiral arrow for she to start his poke and grab mixup.

    It seems that she wants vega to ST or jump after a blocked cannon drill so she can shoryuken.

    The fact is that tnks to your advice and Jozhear's about what to do after a spiral arrow, i am better at this matchup, and i'm starting to improve in the right direction. Thanks to both.

    For sure man. Remember... Play the player not the character.

    See what patterns she does and remember to punish. FA but don't get predictable. No matter what she has to come to you and Vega has the superior pokes...Cammys suck, her best being s.MK which is still very short range for a poke.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    Cammys pokes are good, they don't suck at all.
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Cammys pokes are good, they don't suck at all.

    When I say they suck I mean that they have limited range. MK either cr. or s. is her best and its not very good. Most of her normals require her to be in quite close. Her cr.HK is horrible. I do enjoy using her cr.HP when I play her because she can link it into another one.

    unless you give a more specific answer there is not much more that can be said.

    She does great damage and stun when she gets in but other then wake up games (srk or throw) she doesn't have much of a mixup as everything she does can be blocked low. Vega shouldn't be letting her in like that to begin with...she has very limited options to get close to you.

    - She can walk forward. Vega can cr.MP this. If you have meter thats instant EX FBA combo.

    - She can jump. Vega can either s.HK (know your spacing on this!) or ST.

    - She can Holigan. Vega can ST on reaction. Flip or backdash. Also neutral J. HK seems to work but I have chosen this option so few times that you should comfirm it before using it in a match to make sure its safe.

    - She can Drill. As mentioned you can FA this. Only her HK Drill hits twice and only does so from very close range.

    - She can jump and then CS from the air. Unless she hits you at the lower end of your hitbox this move is not safe. I learned this from playing her myself. CS from th air must hit the bottom of the character for her to be able to do anything out of it. If she does it properly she can go for a throw or a block string, generally option selecting the throw works as the cr.LK will hit her before she tries anything. Also if you ST her on her way down you can hit her clean but may trade. I'm almost positive that the trade is in Vegas favor.

    - EX CS is a different story. If you block this she will have the advantage. Be prepared to play some defense for a bit. Remember she is either going for a throw or a block string. She may just srk afterwards which would be great for Vega becasue that pushes her away and now she has to work to get back in...and as a good Vega player you should be making her work to get in. You can use flip here as well but don't get predictable becasue if she Drills I believe it will catch up to you can hit and if she is doing a block string she can always stop and walk to where you are and throw or worse.

    Even against a very good Cammy player I have never found this match to be very difficult. It may be becasue I play her or I just feel comfortable with the match up. No matter what tho...Never underestimate your opponent. Even if the match is in your favor. and remember to play the player not the character, watch for what they do and capitalize.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • jvvKELjvvKEL Stimpy's Big Day Joined: Posts: 115Registered
    and remember to play the player not the character, watch for what they do and capitalize.

    Nicely put, this is the best advice I've heard all day and I love you for it.
    We live. Not dead. We live. We kill.
    av by lolerskates
  • elcubanolocoelcubanoloco NorCal represent! Joined: Posts: 716Registered
    this is good stuff. i don't have much cammy experience either, although the ones i 've been playing online haven't given me too much trouble really. just keep her out with proper use of vega's tools and bait.
    SSF4 Ae 2012: Claw, Dictator, Yang, Rose
    MK9: Kabal, Rain, Scorpion, Mileena
    SF3 3s: Yang, Ken, Ryu, Makoto, Alex
    SSBM: Falco, Ganon, Zelda, Mario, Marth
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Nicely put, this is the best advice I've heard all day and I love you for it.

    Ryu: Ask AKS216 - advanced strategies < this is the name of a thread in the Ryu forms (who i play as a second)

    Even if you don't play Ryu I would highly recommend reading his posts in this thread...

    I got the "play the player not the character" from him. It really opened my eyes a bit...I mean I think we all do it without thinking about it but having the idea in the forefront of your mind while playing seems to allow you to prepare more quickly for patterns, worthless block strings, ect... He has many diamonds of information like this one that apply not just to Ryu but to SF4 in general.

    I remember reading throw this post just being amazed at out spot on he is about certain aspects of the game...being able to put things into words and have the strategies make sense really got me thinking about my Ryu game. I'll always like Vega more so I took what i could from that thread and applied it to my Vega game. In a lot of respects it helped.

    Won't change your whole view of SF4 but may shine some light in a few areas. A great and thorough reading about SF4.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • MelubasMelubas Joined: Posts: 219Registered
    Anyone else feel like lots of "good" ryus only throw out random shit to win haha. I can appreciate a good player that plays any character but most of the time when i lose to Ryu i find myself cursing at his randomness. That and i never manage to anticipate the fireball at the end of his blockstrings so i can ex roll that shit.
    Playing Vega, Gen and T. Hawk.
  • AmericaAmerica Joined: Posts: 140Registered
    Anyone else feel like lots of "good" ryus only throw out random shit to win haha. I can appreciate a good player that plays any character but most of the time when i lose to Ryu i find myself cursing at his randomness. That and i never manage to anticipate the fireball at the end of his blockstrings so i can ex roll that shit.

    Most of them once they get Ultra will look for lp shoryuken opportunities, just don't jump.
  • SasakiSasaki *~ Stardust Drop ~* Joined: Posts: 1,343Registered
    Anyone else feel like lots of "good" ryus only throw out random shit to win haha. I can appreciate a good player that plays any character but most of the time when i lose to Ryu i find myself cursing at his randomness. That and i never manage to anticipate the fireball at the end of his blockstrings so i can ex roll that shit.

    So it's not only me who got this feeling lately.

    Oh and btw: I can't thank every single person here personnally so I'm going to say this now: I appreciate every single bit of help you give me. Consider your post read when you post it, cause that's what I'm doing 100%.
    "You should be able to win a match without using a single special or super move. No normals, no game, know normals, know game, I tell you!" - Jerry "normal" Bell
  • dirtybananadirtybanana Joined: Posts: 309Registered
    Anyone else feel like lots of "good" ryus only throw out random shit to win haha. I can appreciate a good player that plays any character but most of the time when i lose to Ryu i find myself cursing at his randomness. That and i never manage to anticipate the fireball at the end of his blockstrings so i can ex roll that shit.

    amen brother!
  • jvvKELjvvKEL Stimpy's Big Day Joined: Posts: 115Registered
    Anyone else feel like lots of "good" ryus only throw out random shit to win haha. I can appreciate a good player that plays any character but most of the time when i lose to Ryu i find myself cursing at his randomness. That and i never manage to anticipate the fireball at the end of his blockstrings so i can ex roll that shit.

    Ohhh yeahhh, and I've only ever noticed it in Ryus as well. It's frustrating as hell when it actually works in their favor.
    We live. Not dead. We live. We kill.
    av by lolerskates
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