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Seth Q&A: Ask simple questions here!

SosageSosage Mopping Up Your SaltJoined: Posts: 1,672Registered, Moderators
I noticed you poor Seth players are missing one of these threads, so here yah go. Go at it.
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Comments

  • Unknown Joined:
    Local gamecrazy tournament BANSTICK

    so I finally decided on Seth as my main a little while ago, been practicing like mad, and was really excited when I heard there was a tournament this weekend at my local gamecrazy. then I hit the website, and am greeted by rule #1:

    1) You are allowed to use all characters except SETH.

    anyone else experienced this? I'm def going to at least stop maining Seth if this appears that it may be the case...
  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    I've been to places that said no Seth and no Gouken. People just get scared of them really quickly since they weren't playable in the arcade version. Most places that know what they're doing don't seem to have that though.
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • retryretry Animus 3.0 Joined: Posts: 467Registered
    Anything SRK related will not be banning any characters at this point. Little stores that aren't in the hardcore community will likely be banning Seth just because they're too lame to unlock him.
  • KINGKING あなたの母親の膣 Joined: Posts: 2,534Registered
    What makes Seth supposedly really good? Is it the rediculous stun damage?
    "I will be kind enough to give you the hint regarding KOF though: read Iori Yagami's family name in reverse." -- Black Shroud
  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    I think that on the lowest levels people assume that since boss Seth can do some ridiculous things for good damage that he's totally kick ass and they think boss = instaban. Then at a separate level covered in the gootecks podcast and other places, if he has ultra and you're at full screen, you're going to eat it unless you have a move that changes your air trajectory since he can jab boom then if you fireball to cancel it ultra, jump it he can ultra, FA he can ultra, other super armor moves he can ultra etc.

    He's very good at limiting a lot of opponents options in certain situations. If he gets in a preferred spot with a preferred set up even more of your options than against Dhalsim are gone and that is very painful. He does do high stun damage for barely any gauge, but they aren't that much higher Stun than a more gauge consuming far higher damage dealing combo from boxer or Honda. Definitely not enough to push him to ban status.

    If his Ultra did the damage of anyone else's ultra he would be considerably scarier though since he's one of the few characters who have an ultra that doesn't need to be combod into and thus will do full damage regularly since it in itself is a great tool to counter a lot of things (pretty much everything that doesn't recover super fast regardless of range and great as an anti air.)

    I think that once he gains ultra that as long as the Seth player is competent that should mean a certain chunk of your health is guaranteed to be gone along with all the chip etc from trying to avoid it. This would be far scarier of course if you couldn't combo Seth from over half health to Death with relative ease thanks to his stamina. I think just like against Dhalsim or Zangief as long as you deal with Seth in the right way and don't treat him like other characters you can still beat him just the same as those two.

    Personally I think he's just below the Ryu and Boxer area in overall power for the game. He has great tools for many situations, he just has low health and damage to make up for it.
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 1,641Registered
    What do I do against E. Honda? His normals just kick my ass all the time >.<'
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Crossing the Line for Anarchy!" - A SFxT DLC Character Combo Video
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,213Registered
    What do I do against E. Honda? His normals just kick my ass all the time >.<'
    This is currently my bitch-ass strategy:

    lp sonic boom, backdash, lp sonic boom, backdash, walljump-> 1 headstomp, lp sonic boom, etc.

    Punish his jump-ins with lp shoryu -> headstomps, and just stay out of range of his buttstomps. Don't get counter-poked while using j.fp. Basically, treat Honda like Gief, only you can't punish his attacks up close and he has almost no way through your projectiles.

    Seriously, I think this match is so stupidly in favor of Seth because Honda has no answer for runaway covered by sonic boom. Honda players, am I missing something?
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - Why the hell haven't you read this yet?

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  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    Running away does leave Honda with very few options since even on EX his headbutt will just flip back a little bit over a jab boom, I think that's almost more important than the damage it does!
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404Registered
    Also, keep in mind that you can punish almost everything Honda can use to get in. Blocked fierce headbutt = MK lightning legs, blocked butt splash = free jab SPD, and other headbutts on block = free super.

    I think this is worse than Zangief vs. Seth, to be honest.

    And in a sense, Seth's ultra does deal as much damage as some other ones. Immediately after landing an ultra, jump forward once - this puts you in a perfect position to go for your ambiguous crossup game. Only a few characters in this game have a real answer to crossups, so most of the time it's a 50/50 shot at more free damage, with mixup possibilities if it gets blocked.
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  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    Wait, who has an actual answer for a crossup in this game?
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • retryretry Animus 3.0 Joined: Posts: 467Registered
    Anyone notice any post-patch tweaks to Seth?
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,213Registered
    Wait, who has an actual answer for a crossup in this game?
    Characters with a teleport, Blanka, Zangief (not on wakeup), Balrog, and Abel (close s.fp beats everything basically, including crossups)

    I noticed a couple things while playing Seth today. Has seth's cr.fp always only been one hit on block? Also, I think if you do a FA lvl 2 and immediately do a cr.fp after the forward dash, you only get one hit. My execution is horrible today, though, so it might just have been me.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - Why the hell haven't you read this yet?

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    If you cross up blanka on wake up sure he hits you but normally once you're on the ground if it was timed safe which with Seth's abilities means a painful punish. Please explain Balrog's as C. Fierce is good but on wake up it will still get destroyed. I had no idea on Abel and when someone teleports with Seth's jump speed he can tag them with standing fierce most of the time, fierce SB some of the time, and ultra rarely.
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,213Registered
    If you cross up blanka on wake up sure he hits you but normally once you're on the ground if it was timed safe which with Seth's abilities means a painful punish. Please explain Balrog's as C. Fierce is good but on wake up it will still get destroyed. I had no idea on Abel and when someone teleports with Seth's jump speed he can tag them with standing fierce most of the time, fierce SB some of the time, and ultra rarely.
    You never said on wakeup. Also, you can't safe jump blanka. Electricity is + on block and safe-jumping against EX up ball is really hard. As for the teleport, if you do a late cross up they'll just block. If you do it early they teleport out and you don't have time to land and punish. In fact, they actually can start jumping in on you before you land usually.

    As for Abel, don't take that out of context. The close s.fp has balls range, but it's great versus crossups because it hits above his head, only takes 4 frames to come out, and you can cancel it into a roll for a mixup off the reset.

    Almost every character has an answer to an early crossup with EX meter. And those with a command grab have an answer to a late crossup with EX command grab.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - Why the hell haven't you read this yet?

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    I assumed when Josh said perfect for cross ups after a knockdown that he meant on wakeup. If you safe jump you should beat electricity, safe jumping on EX up ball is really hard I agree, on teleport however I disagree if they wake up reversal teleport and you were crossing them up at the right point you should definitely have time to punish them with stand fierce. Great to learn about Abel though!

    Again with the command grab, if you aren't at a frame + from a crossup it wasn't done well in the first place.
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • KikuichimonjiKikuichimonji Watch out, I know frame data Joined: Posts: 4,213Registered
    I assumed when Josh said perfect for cross ups after a knockdown that he meant on wakeup. If you safe jump you should beat electricity, safe jumping on EX up ball is really hard I agree, on teleport however I disagree if they wake up reversal teleport and you were crossing them up at the right point you should definitely have time to punish them with stand fierce. Great to learn about Abel though!

    Again with the command grab, if you aren't at a frame + from a crossup it wasn't done well in the first place.
    I've never beat electricity with a jump-in. Is that possible?

    Also, Abel has no answer to a crossup on his wakeup except maybe rolling away if it's misstimed or he EX's. s.fp is not useful on wakeup.

    The EX command grab isn't done after blocking, it's done on reversal against a 'safe jump.' Your attack whiffs because they are invincible, then you get grabbed when you land. This is most effective with Abel because his command grab is slower so you're more likely to land before it comes out.
    Domination 101 by Seth Killian - Why the hell haven't you read this yet?

    Maj's Footsies Handbook - It's like the Bible, but for Street Fighter.
  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    If you've got bizzlin reactions go for shoryu in those cases otherwise jumping away with a fierce seems like it would smack Abels who go for that fairly well.
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • DooplissDoopliss T.Rawk Joined: Posts: 1,641Registered
    Seriously, I think this match is so stupidly in favor of Seth because Honda has no answer for runaway covered by sonic boom. Honda players, am I missing something?

    I play a litle Honda myself, and Projectiles are a pain, yes. I believe Honda is the character with the poorest defence against projectiles.

    But I never spam projectiles, so that's why I'm getting owned XD I'll probably start during this match-up though.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Crossing the Line for Anarchy!" - A SFxT DLC Character Combo Video
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995Registered
    i just started playing seth a couple days ago and my friend whos been maining honda since the dawn of sf came over to play, you can ahnialate honda by SB and back jumping feirce all day, its embarassing. this matchup feels more broken to me then any other matchup in the game, i would imagine dan having an easier time with cyber sagat then honda having with seth
  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,438Registered
    Does Seth have an answer for Guiles air grab?
    "L.RH to your soapbox" - Sosage
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995Registered
    Does Seth have an answer for Guiles air grab?

    neutral jump rh has the range to hit him before hes in range, if your jumping forward and he jumps you can divekick to hopefully throw his timing off and avoid it.
  • rexyaresexyrexyaresexy Training Mode Abuser Joined: Posts: 461Registered
    Does Seth have an answer for Guiles air grab?

    Only thing seth can do is to not telegraph it, and *sometimes* I think j.hp if timed right, can stuff guild air throw.
  • Unknown Joined:
    anyone ever feel like giving up? His health is just ridiculous. It wouldn't be as bad if he was just hard to stun. I mean a Sakura player killed me in ONE ****ing combo. at the start of a math a Gief player stunned me with just one neutral air HP. FFS all Sagat and Ryu players have to do to win the match is just get a lucky shoryuken and it's over. and let's not forget the teleport/srk/ultra/tandem engine nonsense. I'd wager a good 30% of my losses have come from that. Hell even sonic booms can come out as SPDs.
    Seth is the only character in this game I'm truly comfortable with, despite the flaws, but they're getting harder and harder to tolerate. It's like I have to play flawlessly even against far less skilled opponents. </moan>
  • ChrisisChrisis Optimized Scumbag Joined: Posts: 5,202Registered
    This is one of the 2 trade offs seth has for being so amazing at everything.Your goal is to either be at perfect health or have ultra, there should rarely be a time between as they can kill you in any state other than those two. Zone when necessary, rush when necessary.
    "Viper has no bad matchups, only bad players." -RobIsntDrunk
  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,438Registered
    You have to be close to flawless defensively, you definitely cannot get hit by a combo then try to go rambo on your wakeup, cause if you guess wrong or get stuffed that's stars and game over.

    That being said I've had games where I'm down to no health and have come back to win it.

    You cannot be reckless with him but instead you have to be calculating.
    "L.RH to your soapbox" - Sosage
  • m2davem2dave Joined: Posts: 162Registered
    anyone ever feel like giving up? His health is just ridiculous. It wouldn't be as bad if he was just hard to stun. I mean a Sakura player killed me in ONE ****ing combo. at the start of a math a Gief player stunned me with just one neutral air HP. FFS all Sagat and Ryu players have to do to win the match is just get a lucky shoryuken and it's over. and let's not forget the teleport/srk/ultra/tandem engine nonsense. I'd wager a good 30% of my losses have come from that. Hell even sonic booms can come out as SPDs.
    Seth is the only character in this game I'm truly comfortable with, despite the flaws, but they're getting harder and harder to tolerate. It's like I have to play flawlessly even against far less skilled opponents. </moan>

    Why were you jumping at Zangief at the beginning of the match in the first place? I presume you got countered by the headbutt which results in an immediate stun.
    Just jump back or backdash and there is nothing he can do. The only legitimate way for Zangief to hurt you/to get close to you is when he lands a lucky EX Green Hand through your Sonic Booms. In many ways, this match up is similar to Zangief Vs. Akuma. Just run away all day and make him chase you.

    Aside from that, no one said it was going to be easy. Your defense, execution, and yomi have to be very, very good. Never take unnecessary risks when you do not have to. If you do, prepare to lose a lot with Seth. Part of what makes a good Seth player good is knowing against which characters you can afford rushing a little bit and taking some risks. Characters such as Claw (Vega), C.Viper, Abel, Guile, etc. belong in that category mostly because they either have awful anti-aerial options or poor stamina/dizzy points or all the aforementioned. So, Seth can jump in on them and apply pressure/stun them before they can do the same to him.

    Against Ryu and Sagat, zone and stay away. Most Ryu and Sagat scrubs will try to engage in projectile wars at first. Simply absorb their fireballs (absorb two consecutive ones and avoid the third one by neutral jumping or using the LP Tendem Engine so it passes through you) and build your Ultra Combo. Against Sagat, this is obviously harder to achieve because his Tiger Shots are faster than Ryu's Hadokens. If you have a lot of life, use the Tandem Stream as soon as you get it to punish their fireballs on reaction. Once they realize that their silly tactic does not work against Seth, they will rush in, usually by jumping forward. j.HP will take care of that. They will probably then start using early jumping attacks (i.e., j.MK for Ryu, j.MK/j.HP for Sagat) in order to clip your j.HP. Throw LP Sonic Booms so they land on it or time st.HP so it punishes them once they land on the ground. When you are trapped in a corner and the Ryu/Sagat player is about half screen away, wall jump (and do not do an anti-air attack) the moment they jump in at you. What happens is that by the time they land, you will already be above their heads and land on the other side of the screen. Of course experienced Ryu/Sagat players will not make all of these silly mistakes, but you will easily be able to beat most of them online ranging from 2000GP-6000GP, and of course expect a few hate-filled messages along the way.
  • Unknown Joined:
    Well I appreciate the advice, as others do with the same problems, but the biggest thing holding me down probably is the command thing. It seems to happen almost every match despite me putting in the correct input, I'll even go slow and accurate and I'll still tandem engine instead of teleporting resulting in me losing half my health or more. I'm probably just going to take a hiatus from this game until I get a stick, and if that doesn't make a difference then I guess sf4 isn't for me.
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404Registered
    Playing Seth forces you to develop that "Justin Wong" mentality. Stay defensive, only take risks when it can reverse the momentum, and choose your moves based on reaction rather than guessing.

    That last one is the most important...to win with this character, you must be able to ultra through jump-ins/fireballs/etc. on reaction, you must be able to DP jump-ins on reaction, and you must be able to EX lightning legs through certain moves (shoto fireballs, Balrog's specials) on reaction.

    My reaction time is nothing special, yet I have gotten pretty good at these things. This is the rare instance where playing online may actually help - if you can react to this stuff with lag, you should easily be able to do it offline.

    Oh yeah, and be very careful with the sonic booms and stand fierces. Those moves do very little damage and can cost you a ton if the opponent jumps over them. I mainly tend to use them at long range, and not even then against some characters (Akuma/Gouken EX demon flip, Chun/Abel ultras, etc.).

    And yeah, SF practically requires a stick to play at high level, unless maybe you use Blanka or someone. =P
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  • Reipin PillageReipin Pillage Lover of thigh highs Joined: Posts: 2,438Registered
    Josh I always see you in champ mode, I gotta play you one day in the first round where it doesn't matter since our connection is 3 bars =[
    "L.RH to your soapbox" - Sosage
  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 705Registered
    Playing Seth forces you to develop that "Justin Wong" mentality. Stay defensive, only take risks when it can reverse the momentum, and choose your moves based on reaction rather than guessing.

    That last one is the most important...to win with this character, you must be able to ultra through jump-ins/fireballs/etc. on reaction, you must be able to DP jump-ins on reaction, and you must be able to EX lightning legs through certain moves (shoto fireballs, Balrog's specials) on reaction.

    My reaction time is nothing special, yet I have gotten pretty good at these things. This is the rare instance where playing online may actually help - if you can react to this stuff with lag, you should easily be able to do it offline.

    Oh yeah, and be very careful with the sonic booms and stand fierces. Those moves do very little damage and can cost you a ton if the opponent jumps over them. I mainly tend to use them at long range, and not even then against some characters (Akuma/Gouken EX demon flip, Chun/Abel ultras, etc.).

    And yeah, SF practically requires a stick to play at high level, unless maybe you use Blanka or someone. =P

    This is the best advice a Seth player can give you. Your reaction time has to be very good in order to play with Seth. I would like to say my reaction time is very good, but my execution is flawed. Might have to do with playing on pad which makes it harder then those who play on stick. Online doesn't help me as well. It messes with my timing which is essential to pad players. Even if you can react to your opponents moves you have to factor in the execution part which is kind of fucked up with Seth doing random teleports, EX SRK, or Super instead of Ultra.
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