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Alpha 3: Q & A

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Comments

  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204Registered
    Beating V with Z-ism is very match up dependent I think...for the most part in vanilla A3 its pretty much accepted that V is dominant in the game for a variety of reasons. X just doesn't really stand a chance unless its X-Sim or something and even then I believe the most recent ranking charts had Z and V Sim over X.

    I think V is very interesting on its own, its got the choice of the alternate normals made as command moves and such. But I don't like how in vanilla it holds so much precedence over the other styles. X is just very lacking style, and they didn't even get it right considering its supposed to be based off of ST. For one, the meter building is the slowest out of all the styles (Its V, Z, then X in that order). The guard meter is the longest but that doesn't matter to V-ism tactics and that's wrong anyways as ST didn't have a guard meter. The damage increase should be higher for normals and specials, and especially supers. Doing the same amount as lvl. 3 Z-ism is completely unacceptable. It becomes even stupider when you remember you can mash supers for reduced damage.

    Its fucking sad that Classical mode (which I call C-ism) is really what X-ism SHOULD have been, save for the lack of a super meter (no guard bar, can't be juggled, increased damage).

    When I was practicing and subsequently played Zero 3 Upper back in TX with my two friends I rather thought that V-ism wasn't as dominant. Still strong, but not as dominant. I think the reduced invul activation frames and some other things made it overall less effective. I had made a ton of blog posts on my experiences and thoughts on Upper on SRK blogs, but since the blog section is locked no-one can see them, sadly. Hopefully that changes soon.

    Also TNB got banned? Its about damn time.
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  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 599Registered
    For one, the meter building is the slowest out of all the styles (Its V, Z, then X in that order).

    X-ISM's Super Gauge is just a little smaller than A-ISM's Level 2.

    The guard meter is the longest but that doesn't matter to V-ism tactics and that's wrong anyways as ST didn't have a guard meter.

    It doesn't really need to be said but X-ISM is only loosely based on ST, where characters gain moves and abilities which were similar to their ST versions. Therefore to consider or even request X-ISM as a pound-for-pound representation of ST is folly, as this is impractical; how much of ST should and can be included to be considered authentic, and is authenticity even worthy of pursuit when the more important issue of character viability is at stake? Additionally, having a carbon copy of ST as an argument for character competitiveness is unnecessary, as X-ISM was already fitted with tools to warrant its use: larger throw range, more damage, better special moves, faster-charging gauge, CPS1 chain etc. If X-ISM wasn't seen as a useful mode, it wasn't because of its inauthenticity to ST, it was because of its inability to handle things already present in the game, which would still be problematic even in an SFA3 ST.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942Registered
    -snip-
    I do agree that it's great to have back+[button] to activate the close standing normals outside of proximity. But the other benefit is that you can use far normals even while up close too. That's one thing that always bugged me about games with proxy based normals: sometimes you want the far version while up close, sometimes you want the close version from afar, and you have no control in most games. You do in V-ism.

    Another benefit to V-ism I'd like to add is:
    - Characters with completely crappy/worthless supers can benefit from a way to use meter for damage. It adds a better option to suit some characters who are lacking in that department.
    - Regarding the "Using Vism just to Counter Activate Vism" I'd like to point out that it also allows you to escape tech traps (and therefor infinites):
    YouTube - SFA3 Trap Escapes
    When saying "infinites are bad" you sort of need to analyze exactly why they are possible and if that's actually true in terms of overall gameplay.
    - V-ism juggles cause normals to be treated as counter-hits, juggling opponents much higher than normal hits, even after the meter ends (until the juggle ends). Most infinites are only possible because the repeated hit is juggling the opponent higher than it would without activation.
    - V-ism combos allow you to easily set up tech-traps. Where when the opponent air techs they are unable to airblock right away, but they are also unable to not-tech to avoid being hit either.
    - Crouch cancels do not allow the opponent to air tech because it avoids neutral-state.

    With any of these elements modified it would eliminate infinites for everyone except maybe Rolento. However, characters like Dhalsim, Sakura, Akuma, and Zangief are ridiculously strong in V-ism (sim is basically top tier in any ism he picks), and those characters lack infinites.

    Looking at V-Akuma/Sakura for example though, the issues are:
    - Akuma can activate->sweep->combo like A2 (using an OTG).
    - They do ridiculous amounts of damage even prior to the meter ending (about half life).
    - The tech traps are difficult to avoid.
    - They rebuild meter after the tech trap juggle, anywhere from 25% to almost 50% despite not having infinites.
    - They both can activate->DP for a near-instant hit that reaches a high vertical range (and in Sak's case, horizontal too), which leads to a juggle. Quite a lot of characters lack such a useful juggle-special-move.

    Even without infinites, a successful VC is devastating. But the real issue is, like with Dhalsim, they are just extremely powerful characters with or without V-ism. You can argue that V-Birdie can kill you if he can get a VC in there, but as a character he will always be much weaker than a lot of the cast regardless of which ism they use, due to his overall weaknesses as a character.

    Therefor, you have to consider what the real issue is. Is it the infinite, is it the combo damage, or the tech trap (for meter regain), or how the combos are landed, or is it really just the characters.
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204Registered
    X-ISM's Super Gauge is just a little smaller than A-ISM's Level 2.

    Okay? But yet it gains meter the slowest.
    snip

    You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying I want an exact replica of ST, otherwise I would have complained about X having air recovery (although that wouldn't matter if they had the no-juggle property anyway) and air throw. What I'm saying is giving it properties more true to ST while still in the context of A3's system would only strengthen it, while at the same time making it more true to ST. In essence C-ism and X-ism should be merged together. Alone they are weak and redundant in my opinion.

    And everyone doesn't get CPS1 chains. Also the damage increase is fairly negligible; I'm not sure why people always argue that.
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    ISM COMPARISON LIST
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    ABILITIES X-ISM A-ISM V-ISM

    Air Blocking No Yes Yes
    Air Recovery Yes Yes Yes
    Ground Recovery No Yes Yes
    Taunts Only Dan Yes Yes
    Guard Power Rating High Varies Varies
    SC/OC Gauge Speed Slow Normal Fast
    Levels Available 1 3 2 (50% / 100%)
    Alpha Counter Cost n/a 1 SC + 1 GP 50% OC + 1 GP
    Damage Rating x1.2* x1.0 x0.8
    Defense Rating x0.8 x1.0 x1.0

    * This is excluding Super Combos. An X-ISM Super Combo does the same
    damage as a Level 3 A-ISM Super Combo (if they are the same SC; so
    obviously Dhalsim and Cody are excluded). However, using a hidden
    Mode (Classic, Mazi, Saikyou) will affect all damage inflicted, including SC
    damage).
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    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 599Registered
    Okay? But yet it gains meter the slowest.

    Not true. A-ISM has the slowest building gauge. All gauges are the same length (144 'dots'), with V and X gaining the same amount per move and A gaining far less per move.
    You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying I want an exact replica of ST, otherwise I would have complained about X having air recovery (although that wouldn't matter if they had the no-juggle property anyway) and air throw. What I'm saying is giving it properties more true to ST while still in the context of A3's system would only strengthen it, while at the same time making it more true to ST. In essence C-ism and X-ism should be merged together. Alone they are weak and redundant in my opinion.

    Making X-ISM closer to ST must be considerate of how it affects character strength and ISM balance. As it stands now, the main weaknesses X-ISM has is against unblockable VCs, guard crush through "inflation" VCs, 40% block damage, no air block to reduce tech trap effectiveness and possibly no rolling to escape OTG command throws and juggles which involve throws. Changing the X-ISM to more closely resemble ST addresses only one of these problems. An Alpha Counter would be a more useful option.
    Also the damage increase is fairly negligible; I'm not sure why people always argue that.

    Perhaps when compared to A-ISM, but against V-ISM's damage output, the difference is significant: ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,008Registered
    Some of you are missing the point. I wasn't really getting into "Can A/X defeat Vism?" I'm certain that they can, it's just an uphill battle.

    My question was "Does Vism ultimately make Alpha3 a more fun and competitive game?"

    Xenozip brought up some good points. I'll address them. Firstly, we agree that control of proxy normals is a good thing. Also, I did address that some characters have shitty supers by the fact that Vism slightly increases the playable cast. Characters with shitty supers can still have usable Visms.

    Is it the infinites that are the problem?

    They are one, but i think the tech traps at the end are just as bad. it's a process where the opponent basically watches the screen for 13 seconds and then Akuma/Sak get a huge chunk of their meter back, repeating the process. The culmutive effect creates a very repetitive fight. Use meter, gain some back, build meter. Etc.

    I think Akuma/Sak are only really "problems as characters" when applied to Vism. In Aism they just aren't anywhere near as threatening. Sak even loses control of her best anti air (B+Fierce).

    Dhalsim and Guy obviously do well in a no Vism game, but not as well as you'd think.

    They're high now b/c they can deal w/ V, not b/c other characters can't defeat them. Chun Li gives both characters a hard time. Guy vs Gief is also really tough.


    Tech romancer:

    You're missing middlekick's point. He's saying Xism builds the equivalent of a Aism level three with 2 meters. That sounds like "faster meter building" to me. And sometimes its not even relavant if super damage isn't multiplied by 20% b/c some are unique supers in X.

    20% is really significant, especially on major counter hits.

    Also, who cares if they didn't get ST right? It is what it is.
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204Registered
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a ST fanboy or whatever. I just find that some of the more direct holds to that game could only help in making X-ism more competitive. Such things as the lack of airblock would be somewhat negated for example, if they took C's ability to be immune to juggles. Also the the attack increase benefiting from CHs is a good point I missed, considering how often those happen in A3. Still, I find it hard to swallow that the super is the same strength as lvl.3 or does not benefit from the inherent attack increase at least. No guard meter is obvious, I'm not sure why anyone is debating that. X loses air block and several other things, its only fair. Also as to the chart I posted X also has a decrease in defense. Its more than just the "lack of options".

    I'll have to get back about the "unique supers" in X-ism because while they are different, I'm not sure if they ignore/benefit/are just plain more powerful than Z-ism or not. I'm sure one of you guys could elaborate.
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  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 599Registered
    They are one, but i think the tech traps at the end are just as bad. it's a process where the opponent basically watches the screen for 13 seconds and then Akuma/Sak get a huge chunk of their meter back, repeating the process.

    Akuma has no CC that builds any significant amount of meter after his VC. At best with his CC, you'll re-build roughly 10% of the gauge.
    The culmutive effect creates a very repetitive fight. Use meter, gain some back, build meter. Etc.

    The idea of characters with no infinites (Nash, Sakura, Cammy) or hard infinites (Ken, Rolento, Bison) using a VC to re-charge their gauge is not for the purpose of VCing at the next earliest opportunity but mainly as insurance to be able to counter activate (not such a big deal, since you can usually just block) and to be able to Alpha Counter the almost inevitable guard crush and unblockable VC attempts (crucial). It's also the reason why top Z-ISM players only use a Level 2 Super as a punish instead of a Level 3 when fighting against V-characters. I think the "V-ISM is just run away, build meter, land VC x N" accusation is oversimplifying and ignoring basic aspects of game play that prevent this: outside of landing solid hits it actually takes a long while to charge even a 50% gauge; if you are being pressured/zoned, you have no chance to run; if your opponent has better footsie/mind games/knowledge, you are unable to land your VC; even if you have a 50% full gauge, it is not always to your advantage to use it (you might not be able to re-build at the end of your VC; or, you'll build the opponent's gauge when yours has just emptied, leaving you vulnerable. Finally, there are some moves that are hard to VC with just a 50% gauge.
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,008Registered
    Heh. I stand corrected on several points. And I'm for sure oversimplifying the Vism game.

    I'm just kinda wondering whether or not people think the game is better for the presence of Vism. You're playing at some of the higher end of the curve where Vism meter is actually used for multiple things, such as alpha counters and anti infinite defense.

    In my tourney run I perhaps played 3 or 4 of those guys. The rest were "VC, Build Meter xN"

    Hell, counter activating was the defensive rage. (Don't know Vcombos? who cares? Just pick V and counter activate!)

    My whole point is to really get into the question if the game is better with or without Vism.

    Obviously, even with my tournament history, my knowledge of the game is not encyclopedic. But I'm just bringing out the question.
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  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204Registered
    Well anytime I asked a A3 fan whether V-ism being the dominant ism/the game being better/worse for it the answer is almost always it "gives more characters options that didn't have them before/makes them competitive" or more balanced or something. Along with a few replies along the lines of "if you have a problem with V-ism being dominant you're just a scrub" or whatever.

    I can't help but think a big part of that is simply people that have played the game for a long time, gotten used to its faults and quirks and now accept it as good nonwithstanding. I personally think when a game gives a significant option/choice and another makes it for the most part, irrelevant or not really useful so much that its overshadowed than that's a problem. But this is probably why I don't like A3 much and why I stopped trying to be competitive in Marvel. *shrugs*
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  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 3,670Registered
    Dhalsim and Guy obviously do well in a no Vism game, but not as well as you'd think.
    I actually think that Dhalsim would somehow do better than I think.

    The problem with Dhalsim is that outside of a few matches he has substantial advantages over the rest of the cast. It's true that he's good in A3 as it is because he can fight V-ISM characters, but he was good before V-ISM was a real factor in tournament gameplay.

    The homeostasis of the tournament scene is more or less in his favor, even when he's popular and people want to counter pick him; if there are Chun players they're going to run into a bunch of shotos first, and there will probably be more Zangiefs than Rolentos (though as dumb as Gief can be that match is probably more even than it looks on paper). Also, with V-ISM not being represented, X-Dhalsim becomes more viable- while he misses the air teleport and the Yoga Escape (though that's mainly anti-V), he trades them for bigger damage and a longer Guard meter, exaggerates his natural advantages in some matches.

    You can point out that he doesn't beat everyone else for free (emphasis on "everyone"), but you can make the same argument for SF4 Sagat, CvS2 Blanka/Sagat, etc.

    Also, I think people tend to underestimate how good shotos are in an A/X game. They all have good normals, easy combos into damage, build meter pretty well, anti-air into crossup/mixup, as well as individual pluses between them. While it's not quite A2 in terms of tier placement, they are a lot more formidable than I think people see in practice in the current state of the game.

    To answer the question posed, yes, I'm pretty sure A3 as it is (with the V-ISM issues) is a somewhat more balanced game because everyone's damage potential goes up, and they're given a decent number of options to deal that damage. Whether or not the game is more fun is a matter of opinion. There are plenty of retarded stuff in A3 without V-ISM, and no lack of lopsided matches.
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  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,008Registered
    Sure, Dhalsim would be top tier. He may even be #1. But I don't really think he'd have a ton of 7-3 matchups or anything.
    Then again, I play Chun-Li, so I'm not that afraid of Dhalsim. He just gets jabbed to death.
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  • bill_collectorbill_collector Joined: Posts: 7Registered
    "oversimplifying the Vism game. " -->> beautiful / utopistic theory

    "In my tourney run I perhaps played 3 or 4 of those guys. The rest were "VC, Build Meter xN" " -->> hard reality

    to answer your question: Yes, the game would have been more fun/better without v-mode ... and this debate would have never started.
    A4L
  • otterotter PSN: MyBodyIsInfested Joined: Posts: 2,538Registered
    Alpha 3 without v-ism is basicly an inferior CvS2.
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204Registered
    CvS2 pre-RC was some of the best shit ever.
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  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,925Registered
    In the end, having meter to counter activate will keep your opponent honest (except maybe Akuma if he gets a knockdown). People can't just guess activate if you can counter activate on reaction and punish with 30-100% damage. It's the same reason why people don't just spam Valle VC in Zero 2. Most of the people complaining about V-ISM, complain because they lack the execution and don't want to have to learn the juggles/set-ups (even though they're pretty easy for the most part anyway).

    The first person to try a dumb activate that doesn't kill their opponent is gonna be at a disadvantage afterward unless they can build enough meter to get 50% back (or they have a quick meter build tool like Akuma/Ryu and even then chars like Cody and Sodom can chase you down). Otherwise, they've got no counter activate to keep their opponent honest anymore. So most of the time, you'll see people play standard until they see a sure opportunity to activate (which means your opponent fucked up and deserves to eat something anyway). V-ISM VS A-ISM is skewed in that regard because they don't really have anything to discourage guess activates, so they have to rely more on baiting them out and playing 100% safe.

    Certain characters like Gen and Dhalsim have tools for dealing with V-ISM characters, but most A-ISM characters will have a tough time against top V characters for that reason. However, there is nothing to stop you from playing V even if it's just for something really basic like counter activate > sweep into cross-up shenanigans. Unless you're playing Boxer, every character has something to gain from V-ISM even if it isn't necessarily better than their A-ISM set-ups. Hell, even Boxer gets a CC infinite on P1 side off air counter hits.

    Kayaman is an A-Blanka player most of the time, for example, but he will switch to V-ISM against Cody and other characters with really dangerous VC set-ups. Blanka wrecks Cody in the standard game, so he just wants to make sure that he can keep the match there instead of having to dodge activates all the time.

    The game isn't perfect; risk/reward on VCs is very skewed, but the risk part of it is still very real against someone good. There's lots of V-ISM scrubs who get bodied because they thought knowing VCs and infinites were a free ticket to victory.

    If you don't like having to deal with guess activates, use V-ISM or an A-ISM character that can deal with them better. It's as simple as that.
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  • TNBTNB Bye. Joined: Posts: 1,172Registered
    Hey can I get a transcript for some akuma vc's please?

    Also, some transcript for ryu's guard crush/groundfinite.. I don't know where when or why the c lk's are stuck in. Can someone please tell me?
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  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216Registered
    @V-ism discussion

    Question: Would anybody consider A3 a bad game if there would be JUST V-ism? Because V vs. V already is some seriously deep stuff. So even if you consider A(X) as just a bonus (i don't), how does adding those Isms take anything away from the level of depth that is already present without them?
    Kyokuji wrote:
    V-ISM VS A-ISM is skewed in that regard because they don't really have anything to discourage guess activates, so they have to rely more on baiting them out and playing 100% safe.
    Oh mighty AC :B Seriously though, you're making it sound like it's a big deal, but this becomes less and less important the higher the level of play is. How far can someone get with guess activation when everybody's playing 98% safe and/or varied enough to keep you on your toes? Way too risky to burn V-meter with just a guess, plus the majority of A-ism characters CAN handle V just well. The only thing that's REALLY skewed is V-ism vs. X-ism.

    I agree with one thing though: it doesn't hurt to learn V-ism stuff with an A-ism character. There WILL be times when an opponent will catch you off guard a lot, so it's good if you can make that adjustment to change the dynamics in the next match.
    I've been there with Rose before, since her Alpha Counter in A-ism is so horrible that she just keeps eating dirt sometimes when i'm unable to avoid problematic situations (my fault, not the games).

    That's all part of the reason why A3 is such a tough game to learn, but doesn't necessarily mean there's something seriously wrong with the game itself (like how risk/reward is handled).


    PS: I feel like we had this discussion a few times before, so i'll leave it at that.
    always coming back
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,925Registered
    Well, it's never a good idea to just randomly throw out activates against anyone, but what I'm saying is that the risk is not high enough to be a deterrent if your opponent is on A-ISM. Even if they're consistent enough to reversal super when I activate (assuming they have the presence of mind and their super is fast enough), there's things I can do with a lot of characters to either get away or force a reset and minimize the damage I take. Meanwhile, they've probably burned 3 bars, and I can charge my meter way faster than they can to keep themselves safe. I might risk eating like 30-40% if I do a bad activate, but if I guess right, you lose the round. Plus even if you hit your super, you're out of meter, and I've got plenty of time to build 50% back. When the stakes are that high, you want a good counter measure.

    Alpha counter does not scare me off guess activating. I take like 2% damage and lose my momentum, but you lose a bar of super and your guard (and if it's already low, you're in big danger of losing another). I'll gladly let you alpha counter all day with no qualms until I can guard loop you.

    I'm not saying V vs A is a free win, but the person on A is definitely at a disadvantage with the exception of a few characters. With some characters who need to land activates off anti-air or whiffed pokes, it's not as big a deal, but with people who can force damage like Cody, Sodom, Akuma, Ryu, Zangief, Sagat etc., not having counter activate is gonna make it tough to get out of certain situations without getting hurt or losing guard. Your argument works fine against people like Adon or Rose with low damage VCs, but against anyone who can do 70% or more off of an activate, A-ISM is just way too much of a gamble if your opponent plays at a high level. Someone like Cody or Claw can kill you with just 50% meter.

    If the person you're playing is good enough to go even or better with you in terms of the basic spacing game, why give them another edge by giving them room to throw out high reward, low risk guesses? Not to mention the damage differential. You get a sweep off a whiff, whereas they get 50% or more.
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  • LemresLemres Joined: Posts: 503Registered
    does anybody have any frame data for Karin? I wanna know what's safe on block and what isn't with her.
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  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 599Registered
  • TaiSenpaiiTaiSenpaii T-Hawk Pro Joined: Posts: 20Registered
    - So I've been playing Alpha 3 heavy for the past month and I've always had this question. How is it Ryu can link a C.lp into a C.Mk.? I can't do it normally on reaction unless its a counter hit and it never links when I practice it. But I did it last night with a C.lp, C.lk, C.lp, C.mk.? Anyone explain.?
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 3,670Registered
    You are looking for a counter hit, unless you're talking about a VC or some other situation. But I guess if you were far enough that a crouching Jab hit as late as possible (like a meaty), it might work. The timing sounds like it would be pretty tight.
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  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 956Registered
    After years of not playing this I encounter some issues, getting back into the game execution wise is kinda hard but it's more fun then SF4.

    Gen's dp is much more problematic to pull of fully all the time, compared to SF4. Same issue with sweeping into Demon Flip to grab them from the ground and when it works I often mess up the roundhouse into the next flip (I may just be to slow).

    I have no clue how to get this stuff down currently, meh... maybe I'm just getting to old.
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • DarkOceanUniverseDarkOceanUniverse Joined: Posts: 47Registered
    If anyone downloaded SFA3 from the playstation network, does it still have load times like the psx version?
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 411Registered
    V-ism, IMO, would be alot less of an issue vs other isms if you couldn't crouch cancel out of V-isms. Crouch Cancels should only work in the actual V-ism combos and end after your meter is depleted.
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  • TNBTNB Bye. Joined: Posts: 1,172Registered
    More guy stuff.
    I can chain now but proximity canceling, no. A little help?
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  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 909Registered
    Is chun worth playin in this game, Ive only seen nuki play gouki and sakura, so i assume shes pretty bad.
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  • SeanxFaytSeanxFayt aka KintoUn Joined: Posts: 560Registered
    Does anyone here know how to play V-Sak well? If so, would you mind playing me and helpin' me out? I feel like I'm doing a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be doing (especially vs V-Zangief; I've heard it's in her favor, but I have a hard time anti airing Gief [ st. jab, st. strong, and cr. fierce get beat all of the time :tdown: ], and they all jump a lot on GGPO).
    . . .
  • Soldier ZeroSoldier Zero Z E R 0 Joined: Posts: 1,643Registered
    Does anyone here know how to play V-Sak well? If so, would you mind playing me and helpin' me out? I feel like I'm doing a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be doing (especially vs V-Zangief; I've heard it's in her favor, but I have a hard time anti airing Gief [ st. jab, st. strong, and cr. fierce get beat all of the time :tdown: ], and they all jump a lot on GGPO).

    I haven't played Sak in a while but try either b. fierce, b. roundhouse, maybe st. fierce, or throw a jab srk. You can also try to jump up and hit short or strong.
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