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SSF4 AE 2012 Tier List Thread (OP last updated Feb 2013)

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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 3,969Registered
    Can a mod please clean up the list of stickies?  It's too long and there's stuff on there we really don't need.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 3,969Registered
    RE:  F-Word's comments

    I don't feel that Ibuki's weakness is a lack of AA.  Close st.hk, far st.mp and raida all work great and lead to big damage and/or setups.  She gets to combo off close st.hk trades so that it also ends in her favour.
  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 844Registered
    edited February 2013

    "IBUKI vs KEN – 5.5/4.5 The ground game is fairly even and again this char is very vulnerable to the knockdown but his knockdown game is far better than Ryu's which is the only thing that prevents this from being a solid 6-4. "



    The big problem here is the unblockable Ibuki has on Ken. DRS Chris pointed this out in the match up and Clakey D landed it on him several times in the 25th anniversary LA tournament. Someone said Unblockables should not have an impact on a match up. I disagree. Whoever said that should try playing against Ibuki using Ken. If that unblockable (or one frame to block) was patched out this match up would shift in Ken's favor.

    Post edited by Shinebox on
  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 1,295Registered
    edited February 2013
    idk about this. The mixup Ibuki has is the same for every character that are susceptible to that. Rose can also escape it in multiple ways so no I don't think he got this completely right. EX-spiral makes Rose escape it easily and puts distance to each other and resets the situation -> Forced to play a ground game -> Rose dominates on that field. She can't shutdown Rose only with mixups. Its true her projectile isn't really that supporting in this match but her normals makes it up for it and flat out beats Ibuki's. Also, indeed Rose has some jump-ins (specially in the corner) that can be weird for Ibuki to block and this paired with U2 can cause devastating damage, specially since Ibuki only has 900 health. I still feel Rose has a slight advantage on ibuki.
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  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,469Registered
    Emanuelb said:
    Thanks Emanuelb.  Added to OP
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    Shinebox said:

    "IBUKI vs KEN – 5.5/4.5 The ground game is fairly even and again this char is very vulnerable to the knockdown but his knockdown game is far better than Ryu's which is the only thing that prevents this from being a solid 6-4. "



    The big problem here is the unblockable Ibuki has on Ken. DRS Chris pointed this out in the match up and Clakey D landed it on him several times in the 25th anniversary LA tournament. Someone said Unblockables should not have an impact on a match up. I disagree. Whoever said that should try playing against Ibuki using Ken. If that unblockable (or one frame to block) was patched out this match up would shift in Ken's favor.

    Unblockables aint a problem, it can be blocked 85% of the time for midscreen unblockables. The only difficult ones to block are the corner unblockables which for obvious reasons one should not even be there int he first place lmao. show me an unblockable that I cannot block 3 times in a row
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
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  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 1,954Registered
    ugo_2u said:
    Shinebox said:

    "IBUKI vs KEN – 5.5/4.5 The ground game is fairly even and again this char is very vulnerable to the knockdown but his knockdown game is far better than Ryu's which is the only thing that prevents this from being a solid 6-4. "



    The big problem here is the unblockable Ibuki has on Ken. DRS Chris pointed this out in the match up and Clakey D landed it on him several times in the 25th anniversary LA tournament. Someone said Unblockables should not have an impact on a match up. I disagree. Whoever said that should try playing against Ibuki using Ken. If that unblockable (or one frame to block) was patched out this match up would shift in Ken's favor.

    Unblockables aint a problem, it can be blocked 85% of the time for midscreen unblockables. The only difficult ones to block are the corner unblockables which for obvious reasons one should not even be there int he first place lmao. show me an unblockable that I cannot block 3 times in a row

    You can't block level 3 focus attack 3 times in a row. Kappa
  • honacostellohonacostello Joined: Posts: 2Registered
    Chun Li is top! No one really used her to her full potential!  Weak catalyst i call them!
  • VeseriusVeserius Paragon of Cyber-Athleticism Joined: Posts: 4,887Registered
    edited February 2013
    blocking an unblockable in training mode is one thing, but some unblockables can have varied timing and when your opponent starts mixing it up with empty jump lows or other options it can get harder to block.

    I can slightly alter some of my unblockable setups to where instead of them being unblockable they are a front side hitting setup or a backside hitting setup.

    Now when that is totally predicated on what button I press you probably are going to be having a bad time blocking me.
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    So there is a level of uncertainty for both players.
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
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  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 1,295Registered
    but the one performing the unblockable has better position than the one receiving it. 
    Power is nothing without skill
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  • VeseriusVeserius Paragon of Cyber-Athleticism Joined: Posts: 4,887Registered
    Exactly because they are straight guessing and I am not.

    The guile who is at the arcade sometimes when I go is really good at blocking my b.throw unblockable, but when I start mixing in same side mixups and empty jump low/throw he starts to get anxious, and worried about the other options so I can start mixing the unblockable back in. 

    Unblockables aren't the be all end all, but if they are doing the job of a safejump+more they are pretty useful for sure, and are important.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 3,969Registered

    ugo_2u said:
    So there is a level of uncertainty for both players.
    If you consider that in some cases unblockables will cause the person with better execution and precision to get punished, then you might start realizing why they are stupid.  You can practice all you want defending against these unblockables but all it takes is a slight miscalculation on the part of the attacker and all that practice means absolutely nothing.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 1,255Registered
    Ok, regarding honda match ups, based on the information we've got, I think the following changes should be done:

    - Cammy: 4-6 to 5-5
    - Guy: 6-4 to 7-3
    - Hakan: 6-4 to 7-3
    - Seth: 4-6 to 3-7
    - Hawk: 6-4 to 7-3
    - Guile: 4-6 to 3-7
    - Sagat: 4-6 to 3-7
    - Gouken: 4-6 to 3.5-6.5

    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - Tier List (v.2013) - http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2879/tierlist2013.png

    SSF4 AE v. 2013 - updated Buff List: http://www.freeuploadsite.com/do.php?id=3721
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    Well Iw ill take reset over blocking an unblockable anyday
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
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  • T20thoughtsT20thoughts Hnnngh way of the samurai Joined: Posts: 391Registered

    ilitirit said:

    ugo_2u said:
    So there is a level of uncertainty for both players.
    If you consider that in some cases unblockables will cause the person with better execution and precision to get punished, then you might start realizing why they are stupid.  You can practice all you want defending against these unblockables but all it takes is a slight miscalculation on the part of the attacker and all that practice means absolutely nothing.
    So a bit like being frametrapped, then, except better.
  • The BreakerThe Breaker witchcraft works animu Joined: Posts: 1,458Registered
    It's like an ambiguous cross-up except you have 1f to block and that direction changes if they messed up (and you can't tell if they did.)

    You could also call it a free jump in combo
    I don't play games because I am a game.
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    ok now that Gen has 2 loop of death combos on Seth will that have an effect on the match up?
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
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  • The BreakerThe Breaker witchcraft works animu Joined: Posts: 1,458Registered
    I don't really know how easy it is for Gen to pull off but if it's "fairly easy" then I would say yes. Mind you it wouldn't be that much in this particular case because Seth dying on a mistake happens fairly often with some characters (like Gen loaded with meter, haha.)
    I don't play games because I am a game.
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    I don't really know how easy it is for Gen to pull off but if it's "fairly easy" then I would say yes. Mind you it wouldn't be that much in this particular case because Seth dying on a mistake happens fairly often with some characters (like Gen loaded with meter, haha.)

    On second thought let's leave that match up, the one that's dead easy is the one needing super, the meterless version a like a 2 frame link timing. I doubt if we will ever see it. Since the Gen forum is slowly dying there is very little chance of the tech going out there. But it's good the old man still have brass knuckles under his sleeves.
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
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  • OilforthewinOilforthewin Joined: Posts: 101Registered
    edited March 2013


    ugo_2u said:

    On second thought let's leave that match up, the one that's dead easy is the one needing super, the meterless version a like a 2 frame link timing. I doubt if we will ever see it. Since the Gen forum is slowly dying there is very little chance of the tech going out there.


    Are you meaning those "unblockables"?
    They have indeed managed to get out of the forum: Onto YouTube and onto my screen.

    Seriously one of those guys should know one Gen player personally, if you are so interested in that this tech should be used by a Gen player, then just show this to them(you have YouTube) or go yourself to Evo and show them, how free they are vs Gen and how easy it is to turn their characters into the next HF Dictator, hell yeah.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/crosscountertv
    I can imagine that they want and need your help, they want to make Seth players salty, no joke.

    I give you some more players that could need some serious help:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/undeadsato His Fei needs some tuning, but his Boxer is good enough, could need some anti vortex help
    http://www.youtube.com/user/bbmanbbman His Akuma is nice, but his Hakan needs more techs

    The new secret ugo_2u tech by GenTech, now with 100% more salt. Free making guarantee.
    This tech is even better than the korean backdash and the Morrigan Salt Fist zoning.

    GenTech´s goal for 2014:"We turn everyone else into the new Sean or Yang.".:
    http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/ssf4/index.html?tc=ya0-trekk8hrkaj8k69uk752k9c6k5gmk7f32lddk7ezk8bak7cdkdnqk4n9k3opk6owkejik7kpkbi9kbffk9gtk7otkhnvkdmtkci9kckmkflskbjhkbhakbfuk9d3kac0k86mk6akk78ykb85k85rk77lk39ak8-bk5-naFraudDetector

    Edit: No really, but Gen is really good in AE2012, however Seth is Seth.
    Post edited by Oilforthewin on
    Hakan wins a match= His opponent didn´t know the matchup.(Nice excuse btw).
    Hakan loses a match = He lost, because he is bottom tier.
    (This is what some people would say, if one of those happens)

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    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198066484611

  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    now that is what a tier list should be lmaooooo!
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    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
    Follow me on Twitter @ugo_2u
    Working on a personal Gen guide for mobile (completion 1%)
  • T20thoughtsT20thoughts Hnnngh way of the samurai Joined: Posts: 391Registered
    ugo_2u said:
    I don't really know how easy it is for Gen to pull off but if it's "fairly easy" then I would say yes. Mind you it wouldn't be that much in this particular case because Seth dying on a mistake happens fairly often with some characters (like Gen loaded with meter, haha.)

    On second thought let's leave that match up, the one that's dead easy is the one needing super, the meterless version a like a 2 frame link timing. I doubt if we will ever see it. Since the Gen forum is slowly dying there is very little chance of the tech going out there. But it's good the old man still have brass knuckles under his sleeves.
    Wait, since when is a 2 frame link hard to pull off in this game? I'm a complete doofus when it comes to execution, and I do Cody's BNBs regularly. Not to mention... every single successful Rufus player out there constantly doing his (plinkable, granted) BnBs.
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    cool.
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
    Follow me on Twitter @ugo_2u
    Working on a personal Gen guide for mobile (completion 1%)
  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 1,954Registered
    SOME 2F links I find harder than 1F links lol It's a matter of timing them. For example, I personally drop (and have seen a lot of good Cody's including Sasaki / Momochi) drop s.HP - c.MP which is a 2F link a lot more often than I drop Ryu's c.MP - c.MP (1F link). For some reason I find it harder to Zangief's c.LK - c.LK link than Blanka's c.LK - c.LK link despite them being not only both 1F links but functionally the frame data is the exact same. (4F startup 3F active 7F recovery)

    But usually that is not the case.
  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 931Registered
    Ryu's cr. MP to cr. MP is a 2 frame link. But I know what you mean, I drop Evil Ryu's MK axe kick to cr. LP all the time while I can do Ryu's jab sweep(after multiple jabs though) all day. It's all about how long you're waiting until you can hit the next button. With Ryu's jab jab sweep for example you're pressing every button one after another with no pause between them. Once you have the rhythm down you'll hardly miss it. With Ryu's F+HP into cr. LP or Evil Ryu's MK axe kick into cr. LP, you're sitting their waiting for the move to end. And then you're waiting for the signal to press LP. For Ryu it's when he pulls his arm back, for Evil Ryu it's when the dust clears. I hate these kind of links because I'm terrible at them. 
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    In my opinion tiers will only be useful when everyone pulls in their opinion and after mastering the character and their options then equate them to other characters. lol! About the Gen touch of death on Seth, it will only work if the seth player doesn't know about the set up. but it will be sick for someone to land this at evo.
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
    Follow me on Twitter @ugo_2u
    Working on a personal Gen guide for mobile (completion 1%)
  • Ryuken9Ryuken9 Joined: Posts: 484Registered
    I also find that some 2F links are more difficult than others. For exemple if you take Ken and Ryu, c.lp to c.mk, both are 2F links but the timing is drastically different. I might be wrong though, Ken's links into c.mk are pretty easy it might be 3F.
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  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 1,954Registered
    I was wrong Ryu's c.MP is 4F startup I thought it was 5F for some reasons.

    @Ryuken9 Ryu and Ken's c.LP are both +5F on hit. However Ryu's c.MK is 5F startup Ken's is 4F startup. So Ryu's is a 1F link Ken's is a 2F link.
  • Da KnutDa Knut Joined: Posts: 1,149Registered
    I think that DJ vs Yun, Sim and Fei is worse than 4-6

    And I think that DJ beats Gouken more than 6-4

    I still don't understand why DJ is only 5.5-4.5 against Gen.
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