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SSF4 AE 2012 Tier List Thread (OP last updated Feb 2013)

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  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 2,343Registered
    I feel that's more the case with Gen and Vega. I can't believe what points those players have racked up with their set of canned gimmicks. Two great footsie characters and they don't even bother with footsies.
    ehmm, if it works once its a gimmick, if it works alot then its a tech.
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://ssf4tutorialvideos.blogspot.com/
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  • AzraelAzrael Epic Calling! Joined: Posts: 2,818Registered
    Uryo's Sakura match-up thoughts, translated.


    Ryu
    Advantage to a Ryu player who is perfect at his anti-airs. However that's difficult for Ryu. Sakura gets it back on the ground so ultimately this is about even.

    Ken
    Footies are completely different from the Ryu match. Don't like the guessing game after he hits EX Tatsumaki. Also forward kick (step kick?) and hit-confirm Shoryukens make the match difficult. Can't back dash his Shoryuken. Feel like it's a slight disadvantage for Sakura.

    Chun
    Chun's footies and backdash are difficult to deal with. However Chun has difficulty dealing with Sakura's jump-ins. Chun wins in footsies, but Sakura deals more damage. It's a tough fight but only a slight disadvantage for Sakura.

    Honda
    The key is how many of her poor-performance Hadokens Sakura can fire off. Honda can push Sakura in the corner if she doesn't take him serious. Don't bother fighting if you can't take down his neutral and forward jumps with DP. A disadvantage fight for her, but I don't have a losing record against any Hondas so I'll call this even.

    Blanka
    Fight this on the ground. Blanka's s.mp is troublesome. A disadvantage fight for her, but I don't have a losing record against any Blankas so I'll call this even.

    Zangief
    I've fought this fight a lot, and after talking it out with Cantona I'll call it even. I don't think Sakura wins this, but if Zangief's step up this game it could go in his favor. For now it's even.

    Guile
    A rough fight. Even if you keep up with him he can just wear you down. You have to use RH and EX HK to get in, stay in, and finish it. Sakura will never have an advantage in this fight no matter how hard you work.

    Dhalsim
    As a mountain hermit (is he referring to a player name here maybe?) once said this is advantage Dhalsim. Sakura has to take risks to get in. And he's got his anti-airs covered. Sak can never have an advantage in this fight.

    Balrog
    I think this is fairly even. They can both do what they do well against each other. Balrog can't run away from Sak's wake up game, so that's nice.

    Vega
    She's at a complete disadvantage in footsies against him, but if Sak gets in she can take advantage of his poor defenses. I'd call this disadvantage Sak, but again there are no Vega's I have a losing record against so I'll call this even.

    Sagat
    Finish your combos with Sakura Otoshi for great set-ups and big damage - advantage Sak. Of course she loses when she can't get in.

    Bison
    This is rough. Scissor Kick pressure of course, as well as MK and his set-ups off throws are difficult to read. Bison has problems dealing with her jump-ins, but overall I'd say Bison has a solid advantage.

    Viper
    It's hard for Sak and her poor defenses to change things up with Viper on the offense. If she gets knocked down she can lose the whole match. And it's hard to catch a runaway Viper. This is definitely advantage Viper, and a big one at that.

    Rufus
    Advantage Sak on the wakeup game and her damage output. If you do it right EX Messiah is nothing to worry about. A lot of people hate this fight, but if you get used to it it's pretty fun. This is possibly the most fun fight for Sakura.

    Fuerte
    Both characters don't like getting caught in each other's traps. I don't really have a gameplan against him, but I don't have a losing record against any Fuerte's so I'll call this advantage Sak. I like fighting against Fuerte.

    Abel
    This one's hard. For both I think. But I don't have a losing record against any Abel's so I'll say slight advantage Sak.

    Akuma
    This asshole's disadvantage Sak. He nullifies everything that's good about Sak! He's got great set ups from Demon Flips, unblockables, and great offense and defense. This guy's a pain. He's definitely in Sak's worst 5 matches.

    Seth
    Definitely disadvantage Sak. But if you land one big combo against him you have a chance. Footsies don't work against him so she'll never have an advantage against him.

    Cammy
    Don't think she has an advantage against her. Like Viper, get knocked down once and that can be the whole match. Sucks that EX DP doesn't work well against her. But Sak has a good wakeup pressure game against her so get her once and you can fight back. Take away her ability to FADC Spiral Arrow and drop her vitality by 50, please. Slight disadvantage to disadvantage.

    Fei Long
    She doesn't have an advantage against him. There aren't any Fei Long's who can do footsies and the things that Fuudo does. It's hard to take damage against Fei unless the Fei player isn't taking you seriously enough. And who the hell thought it was a good idea to give him a command throw? Disadvantage Sak.

    Dee Jay
    Hmm...I dunno. I've never fought against a solid Dee Jay. Slight advanatage Sak, I think.

    Hawk
    Gonna go with advantage Sak. Fight it right and it's a hard match for Hawk. This fight will teach you how to properly use her DP.

    Sakura
    The mirror match. Not to brag but I think I'm the best Sak in the world. Lots of people try to challenge me with their Sak's. But I'm not gonna lose to them.

    Rose
    Most definitely disadvantage Sak. Personally I put her in my top 5 worst matches for Sak. Her character design just keeps Sak in check, and EX Spiral is strong.

    Gen
    Probably disadvantage Sak. His ground game is just too strong, and she can't keep him out. His back dash is also good. However he's low vitality, so if you can endure you can press him as well. I'm going to run some sets against Amiyu's Gen.

    Dan
    Probably not a disadvantage, but a lot harder than you'd think. I think slight advantage, but I don't have a lot of experience with this match so I don't really know.

    Guy
    Advantage. A running Guy is a pain. Some of his hitboxes are annoying. This is a fight you'll want to fight on the ground.

    Cody
    This is a good fight. Personally I like this fight a lot. If I have to choose, slight advantage Sak.

    Ibuki
    I've only fought against Sako, but I'd say slight disadvantage. Both characters have annoying wakeup pressure games. Ibuki's is difficult to read in the middle of the screen, and impossible in the corner (or is he saying unblockable...?). Well, both have unblockables, lol.

    Makoto
    Advantage if Makoto is using U1, slight disadvantage if U2. What makes it a disadvantage is that Sak doesn't have a safe option against either Karakusa or Tsurugi. You can lose to any Makoto. Mak can escape the corner with U2 then you can't do anything to her.

    Dudley
    Don't have much experience with this, but I think it's advantage Sak. But sometimes you'll lose on the wakeup game. It's pretty much paper/rock/scissors.

    Adon
    Definitely disadvantage. He's in the worst 5. It's hard to fight against a clean, streamlined Adon. Sak can hit powerful combos against him so you have a chance. Who the hell thought of making his stand roundhouse two hit and giving Jaguar Kick armor break?!

    Hakan
    Hmm...don't really know, but advantage Sak? Don't have a lot of experience, so I have no clue, lol.

    Juri
    A lot of people call this advantage Sak, but really? If she has one it's only slight. It's a pain-in-the-ass fight for both, but Juri can lose the whole thing on one bad call. But I don't see that many Juri's losing, so slight advantage.

    Yun
    Disadvantage. How easily he can take to the skies is a real pain. It's impossible to bait on back dashes and avoid the command throw. Kazunoko said it best - Yun's a very easy character to use. His dive kick is way too fast.

    Yang
    Slight advantage. It's a good fight. But the difference in damage output is just terrible. His dive kick and mk are a pain. And of course the command throw.

    E.Ryu
    Both have vicious wakeup pressure games in the corner. Personally I think this is a good fight. They both can lose in an instant. I'd say a slight advantage for Sak.

    Oni
    Both again have great wakeup pressure games in the corner. If you're not used to this fight he can kill you in an instant. I'd say even or a slight advantage.

    And that's all of them! But Sak is a great practical-use character, so advantages and disadvantages don't matter that much. This is just my opinion, so naturally it'll be different from everyone else's, so don't get too worked up over it.

    And the gameplay strategies and matchups are still changing, so yeah.
    Ben Perkins:
    I'm a little shocked at how bad the Game Informer guys are at video games. They were pretty good at DmC but that game only requires you to know where the Y button is. And sometimes A. 
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid Non-stop Climax! Joined: Posts: 16,621Registered
    Yang higher damage than Sakura?
    The mirror match. Not to brag but I think I'm the best Sak in the world. Lots of people try to challenge me with their Sak's. But I'm not gonna lose to them.
    gold.
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 357Registered
    Dee Jay
    Hmm...I dunno. I've never fought against a solid Dee Jay. Slight advanatage Sak, I think..

    Even if I no longer play this game, as a former Dee Jay player, I'm always sad to read this...
  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 1,954Registered
    Yang higher damage than Sakura?

    Actually if you read it carefully he is saying that Yang's damage being so low is what makes it a pain for Yang which is why Uryo puts it at a slight advantage for Sakura.
    Uryo's Sakura match-up thoughts, translated.

    Overall the tone of the post makes it sound like most of the matches he is saying "4.5-5.5 disadvantage" not a massive disadvantage except on a handful of characters (Viper/Akuma/Adon/Cammy/Fei sound like he feels are 4-6 to 3.5-6.5 or in the case of Cammy and Akuma 3-7). Also a lot of what he says gives me the impression that he doesn't like to ever call a match even. He'd rather say that Sakura is at an advantage or a disadvantage than claim the match is even.
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 410Registered
    One of the things about Sakura I feel is if you put her on a MU chart she'll fall somewhere in the 10-15 range because she does have some trouble in a number of MUs and has issues with the top 5. If I just had to call tiers from experience I'd put her in the 5-10 range though because she's so explosive in damage and momentum that she can take 1 mistake in a slightly disadvantageous MU and win. I guess he had a similar sentiment towards the end of his blog post.
  • Javed PatelJaved Patel Joined: Posts: 530Registered
    Wth... Uryo is being really negative in his notes... he said he feels Sakura is #1 before... or was that HumanBomb?... I forget now...
    Seth
    Definitely disadvantage Sak. But if you land one big combo against him you have a chance. Footsies don't work against him so she'll never have an advantage against him.

    LOL, looks like some people are gonna disagree with this one ;)
  • SuperstarSuperstar Joined: Posts: 146Registered
    Overall the tone of the post makes it sound like most of the matches he is saying "4.5-5.5 disadvantage" not a massive disadvantage except on a handful of characters (Viper/Akuma/Adon/Cammy/Fei sound like he feels are 4-6 to 3.5-6.5 or in the case of Cammy and Akuma 3-7). Also a lot of what he says gives me the impression that he doesn't like to ever call a match even. He'd rather say that Sakura is at an advantage or a disadvantage than claim the match is even.

    Where does "Slight disadvantage to disadvantage." come off as 3-7. It sounds more 4-6, which is what I would call it. Worst Sak mu are Akuma/Adon/Seth/Viper/Guile/Sim/Rose according to Uryo.
    And before people start saying Uryo thinks Cammy needs SA and vitality nerfed, he also thinks Fei's command grab should be removed along w/Adon's 2hit standing RH and armor breaking JK.
  • otoriotori 1dgod Joined: Posts: 2,862Registered
    She also has a lot of comeback potential with high damage and stun output, plus top 3 shenanigans on wakeup with comboability into untechable knockdowns and j.hp's hitbox.
  • Javed PatelJaved Patel Joined: Posts: 530Registered
    snip

    Taking in mind this was casuals and Uryo had to leave pretty quick, but he still lost.

  • AzraelAzrael Epic Calling! Joined: Posts: 2,818Registered
    If I had to guesstimate MU numbers based on how Uryo phrased it...

    Ryu 5
    Ken 4.5
    Chun 4.5
    Honda 5
    Blanka 5
    Zangief 5
    Guile 4
    Dhalsim 4
    Balrog 5
    Vega 5
    Sagat 6
    Bison 4
    Viper 3.5 or 3
    Rufus 6
    Fuerte 6
    Abel 5.5
    Akuma 3.5 or 3
    Cammy 4.5 or 4
    Fei 4
    DJ 5.5
    Hawk 6
    Rose 4
    Dan 5.5
    Guy 6
    Cody 5.5
    Makoto 6/4.5 (depends on the ultra)
    Dudley 6
    Adon 4 or 3.5
    Hakan 6?
    Juri 5.5
    Yun 4
    Yang 5.5
    E.Ryu 5.5
    Oni 5 or 5.5

    Again, this is only my best guess based on what he said/how he said it, and how we've been treating MU numbers so far. He didn't use numbers at all, and just talked in terms of slight or solid advantage/disadvantage.
    Ben Perkins:
    I'm a little shocked at how bad the Game Informer guys are at video games. They were pretty good at DmC but that game only requires you to know where the Y button is. And sometimes A. 
  • VolcanicAkuma55VolcanicAkuma55 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    akuma has an unblockable on sakura? i missed that. lol and im just about to fight a sakura
    SF main: Akuma
    not wannabe, GUNNA BE pro. just need more practice
  • The BreakerThe Breaker witchcraft works animu Joined: Posts: 1,458Registered
    Sure is a lot of use of "never."
    And before people start saying Uryo thinks Cammy needs SA and vitality nerfed, he also thinks Fei's command grab should be removed along w/Adon's 2hit standing RH and armor breaking JK.
    Oh, well then.
    I don't play games because I am a game.
  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 1,954Registered
    She also has a lot of comeback potential with high damage and stun output, plus top 3 shenanigans on wakeup with comboability into untechable knockdowns and j.hp's hitbox.

    Frankly almost all of her jumping hitboxes are insanely good while also being fast and having decent amount of active frames.

    EMzzF.jpg
    il5xe.jpg
    3EfRn.jpg
    Man Cody has huge hurtboxes.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 1,255Registered
    Hmm, it seems Uryo doesn't think much of Sakura - quite a few bad matches, including some 3-7 ones.
    Regarding Sakura, I talked with DBJoseph - I finally found his id. I said he will get back to me with his thoughts on Sakura matches, so hopefully we will have something more to discuss.

    And about Oni - if you guys agree, I think we should do some small changes to his matches, after Metalmusicman input:

    - Balrog: 5-5 to 4-6 - both mmm and 3nigmatic agree with this change, so I think this one is simple.
    - Cammy: 6-4 to 5-5: ok, it seems most people don't think Oni beats cammy, so making it 5-5 is fair.
    - Ibuki: 6-4 to 5-5.
    - M. Bison: 4-6 to 3-7
    - Hawk: 5-5 to 4-6 - both mmm and Blueblazer think this match is in hawk's favour.
    - Vega: 5-5 to 4-6

    If anybody else has thoughts, disagreements, etc on these matches...
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - Tier List (v.2013) - http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2879/tierlist2013.png

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  • Javed PatelJaved Patel Joined: Posts: 530Registered
    If you can somehow get in contact with HumanBomb that would be nice, he has a very high opinion on Sakura I believe and could probably go into more depth.
  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 844Registered
    Hmm, it seems Uryo doesn't think much of Sakura - quite a few bad matches, including some 3-7 ones.
    Regarding Sakura, I talked with DBJoseph - I finally found his id. I said he will get back to me with his thoughts on Sakura matches, so hopefully we will have something more to discuss.

    And about Oni - if you guys agree, I think we should do some small changes to his matches, after Metalmusicman input:

    - Balrog: 5-5 to 4-6 - both mmm and 3nigmatic agree with this change, so I think this one is simple.
    - Cammy: 6-4 to 5-5: ok, it seems most people don't think Oni beats cammy, so making it 5-5 is fair.
    - Ibuki: 6-4 to 5-5.
    - M. Bison: 4-6 to 3-7
    - Hawk: 5-5 to 4-6 - both mmm and Blueblazer think this match is in hawk's favour.
    - Vega: 5-5 to 4-6

    If anybody else has thoughts, disagreements, etc on these matches...

    So 164.5... which means Oni is the worst character in the game.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,254Registered
    I don't think without legit Oni mains of which there are Combofiend and that's it there'll ever be useable input on that guys matches.
    I have no idea whether the Juri matchup is 6-4, 5-5, 3-7 against him or whatever, so I can't exactly disagree with the noted 5-5, but also wouldn't disagree if anything else was there.
    « SkullGirls. »
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 4,081Registered
    Well I would be fine with Adon's RH being one hit. He already has a million ways to break armor anyway.
    "Who's the best character in SSF4? Well it certainly isn't MY character!" ~SRK SSF4 Tier List thread
  • RezonansuRezonansu [NSS] Starlight Waltz Joined: Posts: 58Registered
    - Hawk: 5-5 to 4-6 - both mmm and Blueblazer think this match is in hawk's favour.


    Someone want to explain this more? DP beats condor dive if you want to react, condor spire as well (i think). If you dont want to react, he can punish condor dive on block with forward fierce (and it seriously does hurt). He can also play a pretty good game of keep away with his air dashes and his fireballs at certain spaces. At close ranges, if the Oni is good (meaning he won't drop it) easy TC into tatsu for a knockdown and then run away again, and Oni does pretty good damage on his combos as it is.
    Hawks favor? Arguable even or in Oni's favor at least. Hawk should have a hard time. his swipe gimmick isn't his only tool.
    Xbox Live: Resonant Zero
    AE 2012: Juri, Yang, Yun
    SFxT: Juri x (Poison, Alisa)
    3sOE: Remy, Yang
  • The BreakerThe Breaker witchcraft works animu Joined: Posts: 1,458Registered
    being able to stuff condor dive is practically irrelevant and condor spire might as well not exist half the time

    if all oni can do is punish with a forward fierce than he is shit out of luck but chances are he can punish with something involving tatsu anyway

    not being able to fadc your dp on block probably means hawk can go to town if he gets in too

    i don't know either character too well but it's hardly arguable with what you've presented
    I don't play games because I am a game.
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 4,081Registered
    Any blocked slash from Oni is free SPD from Hawk. Being unable to FADC his upperflcut means Oni has to commit to getting Hawk off him. Oni can play a ganky zoning game vs Hawk but his fireball not going full screen means Hawk can just sit and whiff SPDs to build meter. Hawk also has some pretty decent pokes to throw out from midrange as well.

    This one is pretty solidly in Hawks favor in my opinion. I play a fairly decent Hawk and I have never had problems dealing with Oni.
    "Who's the best character in SSF4? Well it certainly isn't MY character!" ~SRK SSF4 Tier List thread
  • RezonansuRezonansu [NSS] Starlight Waltz Joined: Posts: 58Registered
    Any blocked slash from Oni is free SPD from Hawk. Being unable to FADC his upperflcut means Oni has to commit to getting Hawk off him. Oni can play a ganky zoning game vs Hawk but his fireball not going full screen means Hawk can just sit and whiff SPDs to build meter. Hawk also has some pretty decent pokes to throw out from midrange as well.

    This one is pretty solidly in Hawks favor in my opinion. I play a fairly decent Hawk and I have never had problems dealing with Oni.
    So aside from slash, and other specials - no normals (in oni's case) tide this in his favor?

    Not arguing otherwise at this point, thanks to that other info - but i would like the match-up knowledge. There was a recent 5v5 in japan with and all oni team apparently, against a team with both a T.Hawk and a Zangief haven't watched it yet. Would help knowing if and why the Oni players lost that one.

    edit: going to training room to test out some scenarios and options to see if i can produce some legit information for these two.
    Xbox Live: Resonant Zero
    AE 2012: Juri, Yang, Yun
    SFxT: Juri x (Poison, Alisa)
    3sOE: Remy, Yang
  • VolcanicAkuma55VolcanicAkuma55 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    ^^ ganky?
    SF main: Akuma
    not wannabe, GUNNA BE pro. just need more practice
  • RezonansuRezonansu [NSS] Starlight Waltz Joined: Posts: 58Registered
    ^^ ganky?
    I mean all for information from better players and all, but this is a discussion thread and im not sure if we've seen enough Oni to seriously knock him down in some matchups.
    Xbox Live: Resonant Zero
    AE 2012: Juri, Yang, Yun
    SFxT: Juri x (Poison, Alisa)
    3sOE: Remy, Yang
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 4,081Registered
    By "ganky" I meant barely effective and can be made up for really quickly once Hawk gets in.
    "Who's the best character in SSF4? Well it certainly isn't MY character!" ~SRK SSF4 Tier List thread
  • blufangblufang Return to dust Joined: Posts: 307Registered
    1. Vulpes, Shinochan and Wao of Japan are legit Oni's...excellent high level players.

    2. In the Oni forums, someone quoted Daigo as calling Oni the worst character in the game.

    3. I guess Dan can celebrate if those numbers are true, then he is no longer the joke of Street fighter.
    If you play a character cause of her jiggle physics, you need to get out more.
  • JulperoJulpero Joined: Posts: 343Registered
    ehmm, if it works once its a gimmick, if it works alot then its a tech.

    I know that but most of the things the guy used were just obvious lag mix-ups. His ground game consisted of mostly just standing there until he figured was a good time to jump.
    Gfwl: jholtta
    Psn: julpro

    ssf4 ae 2012: Yang, Rose, Gen
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 1,255Registered
    So 164.5... which means Oni is the worst character in the game.

    Pretty much...it seems Dan is no longer the worst char.
    I don't think without legit Oni mains of which there are Combofiend and that's it there'll ever be useable input on that guys matches.
    I have no idea whether the Juri matchup is 6-4, 5-5, 3-7 against him or whatever, so I can't exactly disagree with the noted 5-5, but also wouldn't disagree if anything else was there.

    We do what we can. Untill the day I'm able to contact Combofiend...
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  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 844Registered
    For January I think we might want to reconsider some more matches like Ryu and Akuma to 5-5. Also Sakura, She is easily our most over rated character and according to what Uryo has said she has several even match ups which contradicts our list

    Also I recall when I said Ken vs Sakura was in his favor and settled for even. Skatan said she has a slight advantage, Uryo says Ken has a slight advantage. I would wager Uryo is playing better Ken players in Japan.

    Also I think Capcom trolled us by making the strongest character in the game (Akuma) the worst character in the game in his stronger form (Oni)
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