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Offensive partitioning: tricks, setups, and applying pressure

6pt76pt7 Image vs. CapcomJoined: Posts: 132Registered
I don't know if anyone even visits this forum any more, but here goes nothing :)

Been messing around with in the lab lately, and one thing that I've never been quite to level up is mounting a steady "freestyling" offense using partition setups. Some say that it's gimmicky or just plain showboating. I think that some of that stuff is essential to effective Urien play. I think that Cruise shows off just what strong partitioning can accomplish: unexpected mixup and pressure, as well as high mobility--things that Urien isn't known for. He's a big threat even without meter, which is fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CruzinNBoozin

That said, let's share some information on using partitions in a footsie fashion.

Partitioning Basics and Warmup
- :lk: kneedrop, dash, :lp: headbutt
One of the most basic partition setups. Not very practical, but is great practice for someone just starting out. Do it all in one go, no gaps. Holding down during the knee drop and dash is exactly how much time you need to carry the charge. Now what happens if we use a different move?

- :lp: headbutt, dash, :lp: headbutt
If you use the same timing as above, the 2nd headbutt will fail. To account for this, you have to pause and hold down for just a tiny bit longer after the dash before doing the 2nd headbutt. These are the kind of miniscule counts you have to keep track of in your head, but it becomes easier with practice and knowledge of the different setups out there.


After a Throw
- dash, :lp: headbutt
Timing's easy: hold down upon the impact of the suplex, dash, up+punch. If they quickstand and attempt to tech throw, use a slow normal, or a low priority special, they get the headbutt. If they throw out a low, you hop over it and get the punish of your choice. If they block, it's only -2. You can also sub out the headbutt for a :lk: kneedrop.

- dash, c.:lk: xx :lk: tackle xx aegis
This setup has a similar timing to the one above, and is particularly great when the opponent is in or close to the corner allowing you to get a free 50/50 mixup on block or a full combo leading to elbow on hit. Best of all, it starts from a low. Midscreen however, it's better to do a meaty metallic sphere xx :hp: aegis to f.:hp: or c.:hk: mixup.


Tackle Shenanigans
- tackle, dash backwards, tackle, dash backwards, tackle, etc.
This is a stupid but sometimes awesome setup that gives you a few good surprise hits on occasion. This one mixes buffering with partitioning: charge back, hit forward, then back + kick button, dash backwards while holding back on the 2nd input, then tackle again.

- tackle, headbutt
When you hit forward for the tackle, do down forward + kick instead, giving you ample down charge for the headbutt afterwards. Good to use on occasion against people that are slow on the draw to punish blocked tackles, but make sure you space your tackles well. Naked tackles up close are just asking for a juicy punish.

- crouch (pause), dash, c.:lk: xx :lk: tackle xx aegis
A very interesting spacing tool that leads to a guaranteed aegis mixup when used near the corner. The timing is as follows: crouch :db: with Urien, then as soon as his sitting animation finishes COMPLETELY (you should see his outstretched arm tense up into an idle pose), dash partition, then do crouching short into tackle. Play around with the timing, because it may take a while to determine whether you should be adding more charge during the crouch or after the dash. Using this same timing, you can omit the c.:lk: and go straight into a tackle, or headbutt from the :db: charge.


Headbutt Shenanigans
With a combination of j.:hk:, UOH, c.:lp: or c.:lk:, and dashes, you can string together some neat partitions. Basically try taking any two of what I mentioned and do a headbutt afterwards. Against a really defensive opponent in the corner, this is absolute hell.


Hiding Partitions Within Movement
- super jump, headbutt
Simple. A bit useless, admittedly, but it gives you an idea of how long of a charge you need to pull off an instant headbutt. Can we do this off a normal jump? Let's see...

- jump, (filler), headbutt
Not quite. By filler, I mean 1 to 2 of anything from the headbutt shenanigans section (j.:hk:, UOH, c.:lp:, c.:lk:, or dash). So how can we do a surprise instant headbutt from a jump? A couple ways, really.

- back dash, jump, headbutt
- forward dash, jump, headbutt
- brief crouch, jump, headbutt
- jump, forward dash, headbutt
- jump, back dash, headbutt

So on. Here you get to see just how modular you can get with partitions. The great thing about partitioning (and landing) an instant headbutt is that A) a lot of people won't expect it, B) they probably won't ground tech in time, and C) you get a free wakeup aegis setup out of it. Even those with moderate Urien matchup experience can be fooled by it; they may be expecting that final part of the charge to come out from your c.:lk:, when in reality you already had it stored up by that back dash beforehand.

Filler normals are great for helping you time your partitions, but they aren't the only thing that can help you out. Audio cues, such as the AE-GIS timing on the midscreen dash unblockable setup, are huge. But have you tried it out on other things?


Fireball Shenanigans
- fireball, dash, tackle or headbutt
Shoot a :lp: or :mp: fireball. Once you hear Urien say KILL, hold :db:, dash while holding :db:, then tackle or headbutt. Play around with giving more or less charge before or after the dash until you find the timing you're comfortable with. Good to throw out once in a while against a parry happy opponent. You might catch them leaving the air, too, for a juicy corner tackle combo.


Miscellaneous Gimmickry
- ROUND START, dash partition, any special cancelable normal xx any charge special
Situational but definitely nice. Start the partition right when you see the word FIGHT finish animating onto the screen, then you can go up and strong xx headbutt, c.lk tackle, whatever you fancy. This gives you an example of why it can come in handy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5CXppmfBpkI#t=30s

- s.:hk:, headbutt
I love you, standing roundhouse. Hits twice, moves Urien's hitbox away from most throws, and just enough timing to hide a full charge. On block, the spacing is such that a following headbutt will either beat or trade with most everything. And if you do happen to trade, chances are your airborne state will let you avert most of the damage. Just don't abuse it too much, especially against characters with a DP or wakeup super on deck.

And hey, it doesn't even have to be a standing roundhouse. You could whiff something like s.:mp:, UOH and have exactly enough for a headbutt afterwards.

The recurring theme here is finding the right combination normals, audio cues, and specials to hit that exact length of charge. After some practice and comfortability with the timing, you'll find yourself with the ability to stagger the timing of certain setups (such as the Dudley/Alex/Hugo midscreen dash tackle unblockable setup) strictly based on FEEL instead of the ae-gis audio timing. Try out everything listed above and become familiar with that "sweet spot!"


UPDATED: 6/21/12
- Added round start partition
- Fleshed out some details

UPDATED: 6/10/12

- Added movement and fireball sections
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Comments

  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 277Registered
    just dash as soon as urien is finally done crouching and cr. lk xx tackle. easy
    psn: darkTown2
    st: ken, ryu, guile, fei, boxer, cammy, and sagat
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien,yun, alex, chun,
    sf4: ken, i play most of the cast as alternate characters.
  • 6pt76pt7 Image vs. Capcom Joined: Posts: 132Registered
    just dash as soon as urien is finally done crouching and cr. lk xx tackle. easy
    Nice, thanks! I'm getting it fairly consistently now. Adding it to the OP.
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  • ScaffaScaffa Joined: Posts: 169Registered
    I hold down just after it says "FIGHT!" and that works for a dash up low short > headbutt.
  • 6pt76pt7 Image vs. Capcom Joined: Posts: 132Registered
    I hold down just after it says "FIGHT!" and that works for a dash up low short > headbutt.
    Adding to OP! Thanks. Getting it now.
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  • Riot GuardRiot Guard Sup Ken? Joined: Posts: 3,910Registered
    Good write up. The difficult part is the dash tackle unblockables against Dudley, Alex, etc.
  • 6pt76pt7 Image vs. Capcom Joined: Posts: 132Registered
    Hey Riot! Glad you like it. This is Vaudevi77ain on PSN, we've fought a couple times :)

    I agree, for the longest time that was my biggest hurdle. For me, the biggest fix was realizing that I had to put more charge after the dash instead of going f+hk right away. I didn't add that here because I think the sticky already addresses that partition, but I'll probably get around to inserting a section anyway.
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  • WarlikeWarlike 元最強です。 Joined: Posts: 1,958Registered
    Not sure where to ask, but this seems fine.

    I picked up Urien as I really want to get into 3s (lol finally) but I'm having a lot of trouble doing c.hp tackle tackle (headbutt). Headbutt in parentheses because I'll first just want to master doing two headbutts in the corner. In SF4 charge buffering seems a lot easier to me for some reason, I keep recharging for the second headbutt as soon as possible after the first headbutt but it always seems to come out a hair too late making it whiff, and it is starting to piss me off since it's such a staple Urien combo.

    Any tips?
    PSN: indico
    SF4AE: Gen | SF3OE: Akuma
    Looking for 3SOE players to play with on PSN. Add me regardless of skill level.
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 277Registered
    Not sure where to ask, but this seems fine.

    I picked up Urien as I really want to get into 3s (lol finally) but I'm having a lot of trouble doing c.hp tackle tackle (headbutt). Headbutt in parentheses because I'll first just want to master doing two headbutts in the corner. In SF4 charge buffering seems a lot easier to me for some reason, I keep recharging for the second headbutt as soon as possible after the first headbutt but it always seems to come out a hair too late making it whiff, and it is starting to piss me off since it's such a staple Urien combo.

    Any tips?
    you honestly just need to practice it... that was my problem. Your goal is to hit the mk tackle as early as possible, and you will know once you do it correctly. Also, try using lk taclke for practice during your second attempt as it will give you a little more lee-way. The headbutt is your reward for completing the tackles, as once you successfully perform them you just have to press up and mp. also really easy to do on chun and makoto, however you do the fireball combo on them instead.
    psn: darkTown2
    st: ken, ryu, guile, fei, boxer, cammy, and sagat
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien,yun, alex, chun,
    sf4: ken, i play most of the cast as alternate characters.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,125Registered
    dont bother with doing mk lk tackle. just do mk mk.

    your timing is off and you're not doing b,f,b correctly. practice. reading only does so much.
    Play more.
  • akuaku リアル邪王心眼 Joined: Posts: 3,666Registered
    Yeah, you'll find yourself doing MK Tackle->MK Tackle on most of the cast(except maybe the Twins, those guys are funky), so just keep practicing it.

    Landing the first MK Tackle as early as possible is key. Afterwards, you'll have a bit more time to do the second Tackle than you'd expect. What I usually do is negative edge the second MK Tackle(b, f, b+MK, hold that MK, then f, b+release MK), which isn't necessary but it does help me out. That's just me though.

    Even if it's a bread and butter Urien combo, it's still hard to do consistently. These days I can get it like 2 or 3/10 tries maybe, so out of practice. lol
  • 6pt76pt7 Image vs. Capcom Joined: Posts: 132Registered
    What these guys said. You have to do it really fast. Like, really fast. I'm talking slamming the gate fast. And early. You will know instinctively upon the first tackle if you have enough charge for the second. If you did it early enough, they'll bounce up a little higher than normal which lets you know that you're gravy.

    Honestly, for as long as I've been using Urien, I still drop that shit a lot. It just takes practice. There are no hidden techniques, though there are two things you can try. The first is inputting the directions as close to the neutral zone of the stick as you can to minimize the milliseconds it takes to reach the edge of the gate, and the second is making an extremely tight oval motion like :db: :f: :df: :d: :db: which I find helps me. The rest is just pure effort.
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  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,074Registered
    against shotos, mk lk is easier due to lk tackle coming out faster. RX uses mk lk vs shotos and there is a reason why. vs twins only mk mk will work. twins is really difficult with tight timing. only try if you can afford to miss or you just want to be sick.

    there are two golden rules to getting tth. nothing to do with slamming the gate or negative edge :).

    rule #1 - hitting the first tackle as EARLY as possible.
    rule #2 - perfect, clean input of the back - toward - back for the 1st tackle.

    if you do these 2 steps perfectly, the 2nd tackle and headbutt will come out.

    i can do tth 7/10 on a bad day and 10/10 on a good day.
  • akuaku リアル邪王心眼 Joined: Posts: 3,666Registered
    Yeah, one of the things you want to do is try not to slam the gate. This is easier on Japanese sticks since they're sensitive enough. Lately I end up slamming the gate anyway since I get frustrated and want that shit out. Oh yeah, and American sticks pft ;(
  • WarlikeWarlike 元最強です。 Joined: Posts: 1,958Registered
    Yeah I got it a couple of times now, hard as fuck though. Gonna keep on trucking with it though, Urien just doesn't feel complete if I can't do it atleast semi consistently.

    Another question though: I haven't really practised charge partitioning yet for the midscreen unblockables, but I have found that after doing midscreen tackle>mp eagis> hk 'flying knee' (lolwhatthefuckIdontevenknowthename)> hp headbutt (will land me on the other side of my opponent)> f.mk to be good. But is this an actual unblockable? It seems that way in training mode..
    PSN: indico
    SF4AE: Gen | SF3OE: Akuma
    Looking for 3SOE players to play with on PSN. Add me regardless of skill level.
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 277Registered
    Yeah I got it a couple of times now, hard as fuck though. Gonna keep on trucking with it though, Urien just doesn't feel complete if I can't do it atleast semi consistently.

    Another question though: I haven't really practised charge partitioning yet for the midscreen unblockables, but I have found that after doing midscreen tackle>mp eagis> hk 'flying knee' (lolwhatthefuckIdontevenknowthename)> hp headbutt (will land me on the other side of my opponent)> f.mk to be good. But is this an actual unblockable? It seems that way in training mode..
    the "flying knee" is the Violence Knee Drop, commonly referred to as the "knee drop."
    You're setup is way to easy to escape you can just quck roll out of the first tackle, and if you mess that up you can jump out of it.
    hope this helps
    psn: darkTown2
    st: ken, ryu, guile, fei, boxer, cammy, and sagat
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien,yun, alex, chun,
    sf4: ken, i play most of the cast as alternate characters.
  • 6pt76pt7 Image vs. Capcom Joined: Posts: 132Registered
    Sorry, to clarify my previous statement, you don't have to slam the gate. I just meant that as an expression that you have to do the motion as fast as you can to get the earliest tackle timing possible. If you feel like you're in a match where things just aren't going your way for TTH, just end a corner tackle with :hp: for an easy extra 130 points of damage. Better than nothing. Or, :mp: for reset trickery :) Do try out that oval method, though. Might help.

    Funnily enough, I think that I get the TTH off the most when I'm feeling myself in a really dominant round. That impulse to swag out with the double tackle drives up my adrenaline to the point where I concentrate on nothing but getting that first mk tackle out clean and early. Like for a lot of other things, attitude counts a little. Maybe.
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  • fire chocobofire chocobo child genius Joined: Posts: 380Registered
    Sry to beat a dead horse but TTH with 2 mk tackles does the SAME damage as mk followed by lk when it’s off of a corner Aegis, which is how u get a corner combo started the majority of the time. Even when u get a raw launcher, ur only giving up 2 points of damage for 3 frames of added leniency.
    Rockefeller: "Fuck growing up."
    A wise man: "i usually procrastinate till i realize i'm fucked and accept it"
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 277Registered
    I just did lp aeigis in the corner, and ended up with 50 damage for 2 mk tackles and 49 for mk and lk. But my point was just trying to help him get tackle tackle headbutt in training mode. Of course he would want to do the real thing in a match, it's just a way to get a feel of the combo. However I understand why someone might vote against it too.
    psn: darkTown2
    st: ken, ryu, guile, fei, boxer, cammy, and sagat
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien,yun, alex, chun,
    sf4: ken, i play most of the cast as alternate characters.
  • fire chocobofire chocobo child genius Joined: Posts: 380Registered
    Right, just for clarification, I said same damage because I tested with c.lk and uoh guard breaks, as well as tackle xx lp Aegis, which are the ways I usually land corner Aegis combos. In those spots there's no damage difference at all. Not that it matters too much, since we seem to all be on the same side of the argument here. : )
    Rockefeller: "Fuck growing up."
    A wise man: "i usually procrastinate till i realize i'm fucked and accept it"
  • HexSellsHexSells C/K/D Joined: Posts: 273Registered
    I don't understand how to do any of this and it makes me want to quit. I'm so tired of playing Urien in the scrubbiest way possible. I want to actually level up.
    3S: Urien // Ibuki // Gouki
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,125Registered
    I don't understand how to do any of this and it makes me want to quit. I'm so tired of playing Urien in the scrubbiest way possible. I want to actually level up.

    you just need to pay attention to your hands. its easy to think you're doing something one way but actually be doing it differently.
    you want to really focus on what your hands are doing and focus on being as relaxed as possible (when you tense up you're not as fluid/smooth/accurate).
    if you're having a lot of trouble just try making the second tackle an ex tackle (easiest of all to connect). that might build your confidence and get you to practice more.

    it's all just a matter of timing. everything should be sort of skewed when doing tth. as in button presses and stick movement dont line up. so if you find yourself tapping forward and pressing a button at the same time, try to delay the button press.

    b----fdb-k---fdb-k---u+p

    i always go to db (downback) with every charge. it might feel awkward at first but it's better to train yourself to get used to it. the only time i don't use db is when im doing something that requires specific amounts of shared charging/separate charging (like doing a pointblank lov to flashkick combo)

    that's cool that it is only a few points worse damage on mk lk.
    i always do mk mk because it's harder and you need tighter timing. so if you're doing mk mk all the time, mk lk is something you should be able to do under stress without issue. if i was in some match with money on the line i'd do mk lk. but in friendly stuff i dont see why you shouldnt go for mk mk to build your confidence and timing in an actual match situation.
    Play more.
  • HexSellsHexSells C/K/D Joined: Posts: 273Registered
    Thank you very much for you advice and insight. I apologize for the late reply.
    I haven't even attempted TTH yet. I can't even m.tackle into m.tackle. I HAD m. tackle > EX tackle > m. tackle down a while ago but now I drop it all the time, can't even get the first tackle to hit after cr.hp.

    I'll have to study your advice and try to apply it. Again, I appreciate your (and everyone else's) help as I don't have the means to go to local meetups and I doubt anyone would want to play 3S when there's so much other shit to play (especially now that P4A is out).
    3S: Urien // Ibuki // Gouki
  • GREEKGREEK Hi Joined: Posts: 478Registered
    if you have ggpo or XBL 3s you should look for Cruise's urien. He is the best offensive charge partitioner I have ever seen.


    Laughter is the best medicine.
  • HexSellsHexSells C/K/D Joined: Posts: 273Registered
    I should play on GGPO...I don't know why I don't. I have it set-up and everything and I know people on there could help me get better, arguably more than anyone else could.
    3S: Urien // Ibuki // Gouki
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,125Registered
    just keep at it buddy.
    partitioning is a matter of muscle memory. and the only way you build that up is by doing it a lot.

    as long as you can diagnose things you can figure it out and adjust.
    things to try if stuff isn't coming out properly:

    instead of trying your usual timing, just wait PLENTY of time longer and then try the charge move. if nothing happens (or you just jump or do a normal) then that means you either took too long of a break inbetween charging or possibly you're charging too long before the break. as in you're getting a full charge, then resetting charge and trying to get out another charge in too short an amount of time.

    if you do the same thing (wait longer than normal and then try the move) and the move does come out it means you're not charging enough during the first portion of the partition. so you need to focus on changing your timing there.

    in general with partitioning you want the last bit to be very minimal. that way you can either immediately fire it off (basically just tap down/back and then up/forward) or you can hold it however long you need to (since you will have finished the charge during that final down/back).

    so you're always looking to front load the charge. but some combos have such a long time to charge that doing so will actually give you too much charge which, once fully charged if you move, resets the counter which will screw it up. for instance remy's air combo starting from j.fierce. you don't start charging the flashkick until he's already doing the cold blue kick. if you start it sooner you will overcharge and not have long enough during the second portion to get a full charge again (since you need to dash which is where you are splitting the charge).

    maybe that'll give you some more insight. #1 thing to remember is to keep at it. don't be discouraged. your hands need to feel it for you to 'get' it. and that takes time. but it's totally worth it if you enjoy charge characters. the system in 3S is absolutely the most fun and smooth system out there.
    Play more.
  • HexSellsHexSells C/K/D Joined: Posts: 273Registered
    Thank you again, always coming through with the handy and informative stuff.

    I love 3S and enjoy playing Urien way too much to actually quit, I just say I will when I'm frustrated.

    I'm starting to learn that I need to work on my fundamentals before partitoning, though. I often go for the same exact stuff and do too much bullshit that NO player who actually knows what s/he's doing would fall for. It's hard to break that habit, however.

    I will still apply what you've told me to my game, though. Or at least try to.

    I've been holding d/b while charging so it's natural when I do start partitioning.

    Edit -

    To expand on my set-ups (none of them are unblockable or anything special), this is pretty much all I do:

    Round start - I go for a couple things.
    1.) Back-up and start building meter until my opponent comes to me.
    2.) Tackle, headbutt, cr.mk or st. hp.

    Once I get a bar going, I advance using cr.mk (this is my main poking tool. I think I use it a little too much) and st. MP/HP until they get in the corner. I usually try to throw a cr.HP > tackle into the mix or cr. HP > headbutt.

    When they're in the corner and not knocked down: tackle xx lp aegis, cr.mk, cr.hp, m.tackle, st.hp for a knockdown.
    ^That is actually my only corner set-up. So I just go for that over and over with various mixups.

    I'll upload some online play videos later so you can dissect my play better, if you want.
    3S: Urien // Ibuki // Gouki
  • HexSellsHexSells C/K/D Joined: Posts: 273Registered
    Wow, charge partitioning is easier than I thought (at least d/b, dash, d/b during dash, headbutt is). The only difficult part about it is the actual dash.
    Tebbo, you're awesome.
    3S: Urien // Ibuki // Gouki
  • toastedsubtoastedsub Delicious Joined: Posts: 192Registered

    video showing the partition bars, no sound though
    SAUGA MARVEL 3
  • HokutoHokuto Eat it raw Joined: Posts: 4Registered
    Nice stuff toasted, very insightful.
    QCB+Start
  • snobsnob Joined: Posts: 123Registered


    1:21-2:05

    pretty funny. first one is dutty as hell. anyone know who it/they is/are?
    JVEetS8Pp80
    video showing the partition bars, no sound though

    can you show us how to do this?

    i can do the midscreen unblockable like 7/10 on my keyboard, mainly timing issues with tackle after launch because i often dash headbutt and i don't go over them. trying to get comfortable with the timing in general so i can do dash whatever in regular situations.

    tth is out of the question but it has happened a few times... mk mk tackle i can do pretty consistently.
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