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Offical SRK AE rebalance Request Thread

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Comments

  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll asdaf Joined: Posts: 2,791Registered
    you're obviously scared of shoulder. Yun's Shoulder is punishable.

    Ex lunge at -1 is prolly good.

    really? How he seems out of range to punish with the characters I use? How do you punish it?
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222
    SFxT: Dictator +Juri /Lili (Alt)
    SSF4: BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll asdaf Joined: Posts: 2,791Registered
    Yes and troubles with close jumps is one of his weakness, his crouch hp is bad, it's volontary by the devs.

    You don't need to make a come back, or to make big damages with him, you turtle, play footsies, strong zoning, pokes and that's all.

    No Bisons made even top 32 at EVO. Did you see what happened to Yipes? To Jago (not at evo at a different tourny which caused him to drop dictator)? Maybe it would be okay if the twins got nerfed because you can't turtle twins with their get in moves.

    edit: oops double post sorry

    tl;dr
    your stuff is all nice theoryfighter, but in reality it's not that simple (or in some situations, possible quite frankly.) If it was he would be doing more work.
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222
    SFxT: Dictator +Juri /Lili (Alt)
    SSF4: BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 4,571Registered
    yeah he doesn't, I just think he deserves a viable AA after his only good one that isn't even reliable (you need to be spaced correctly) received a damage nerf that hurts him trade wise.

    its like his one character weakness. if his AA is good with the groundgame and rushdown he has, he becomes really strong. which is ok i guess if everyone is getting help.

    however, i dont think everyone should get tons of buffs tho. just my opinion, and i may be in the minority, so i hope i dont get killed for saying this, but i hope all the characters maintain some form of weakness. or the ones that dont have enough should be given some.

    weak spots make the characters more interesting to use IMO. if you have to find ways to work around your own, and exploit your opponents, the game is more interesting than who has the strongest bullshit, try and block this mixup
    fuck AE ranked matches
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll asdaf Joined: Posts: 2,791Registered
    its like his one character weakness. if his AA is good with the groundgame and rushdown he has, he becomes really strong. which is ok i guess if everyone is getting help.

    however, i dont think everyone should get tons of buffs tho. just my opinion, and i may be in the minority, so i hope i dont get killed for saying this, but i hope all the characters maintain some form of weakness. or the ones that dont have enough should be given some.

    weak spots make the characters more interesting to use IMO. if you have to find ways to work around your own, and exploit your opponents, the game is more interesting than who has the strongest bullshit, try and block this mixup

    yeah i agree. If anything was done to him that would be it if other characters got buffed. Honestly if they just nerfed the twins (Yun more so than Yang) I'd be happy. Don't get me wrong Bison is solid right now, i was assuming if the whole cast received a facelift he should get that. Like with juri it's not really buffs it's more like fixing....
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222
    SFxT: Dictator +Juri /Lili (Alt)
    SSF4: BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    oh yee of little knowledge.

    fei buffs from super to AE-

    jab to sweep combo
    EX rekkas safe on block

    fei long nerfs from super to AE-

    roundhouse chickenwing loses all invulnerability

    so you want him to have 18 invulnerability frames on a wake up attack that combos to 360+ dmg? fei longs biggest buff was the nerfs to everyone else, and the areas where he was actually improved arent what should qualify as "all the buffs"

    on a side note people should try to think objectively. if everyone else is going to get buffs, fei long for example could probrably stand to be left as is.nerfing him while beefing up the rest would put him in low mid, real fast.

    if they take the normal capcom sf4 route, which is to just nerf the top, balancing would be much easier. even if it does make the game more boring. just drop some of fei's damage, and weaken the twins palms, super dmg, and command grabs
    + Frames on normals
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • TheMeth90TheMeth90 Slowly learning Elena on 3S... Joined: Posts: 1,145Registered
    No Bisons made even top 32 at EVO. Did you see what happened to Yipes? To Jago (not at evo at a different tourny which caused him to drop dictator)? Maybe it would be okay if the twins got nerfed because you can't turtle twins with their get in moves.
    If you look all of the characters in the game, Bison is a very good character and stay the same in AE IMO but i agree with you, the twins are a pain in the ass and the priority to change in the future rebalance.

    His old U2 was dumb for me, it's better with a charge motion.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 4,571Registered
    + Frames on normals

    that would fall under jab to sweep combo. jab goes from +5 to +6.

    if you want to be technical, his close mk is 4 frames now too. i dont think anybody uses that for anything tho because its a shitty version of close fierce. i think any fei player would give it away for free.

    i also think most would trade jab sweep and EX Rekkas safe for inv RH CW. 300 damage is awesome because you tried a standing meaty or a meaty throw. it also got out of hella mixups
    fuck AE ranked matches
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    give ryu the same recovery as guile on projectiles? his recovery is already good. You want this to become hadouken fighter 4?

    Giving that to Ryu wouldn't to that to the game. I think Ryu should be balance around his fireball. Did you even play ST at all? Ryu was fun to play in that game and fireball traps are a big reason for it.

    Additionally, nearly every character now has multiple ways to get past fireballs now, I think you are over reacting.

    @ HNIC Mike --- ok, I will admit the Chicken Wing issue. That does need to stay the same, other then that he should go back to Super Spec imo.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • XgrayninjaXgrayninja Fumbling my way to the top. One loss at a time. Joined: Posts: 1,224Registered
    Please make Bison's crouch heavy punch a viable anti-air.... reduce the start up. He never had reliable anti-air tools and the one anti air he did have (stand heavy kick) you reduced the damage to hurt him with trades.
    I'd love that. So much. I also would like to see a reasonable damage buff for Bisons regular psycho crusher. I don't think it'd be out of line for Bison to be able to punish harder.
    Gotta be hungry.
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Please make Bison's crouch heavy punch a viable anti-air.... reduce the start up. He never had reliable anti-air tools and the one anti air he did have (stand heavy kick) you reduced the damage to hurt him with trades.

    I agree with this too. That and they should also consider moving Bison's st.HK hittable box back further so it trades less, this would make the damage nerf not as bad.

    edit: Zgrayninja -- ya, it's funny how Bison isn't able to punish things very hard.

    @ meth90 -- It's not as much of a threat as a charge motion. As a motion move U2 becomes something that everyone with a fireball or focus/backdash happy people have to actually take into account. I think it keeps people more honest throughout the match.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll asdaf Joined: Posts: 2,791Registered
    If you look all of the characters in the game, Bison is a very good character and stay the same in AE IMO but i agree with you, the twins are a pain in the ass and the priority to change in the future rebalance.

    His old U2 was dumb for me, it's better with a charge motion.

    yeah charge motion makes sense- he is a charge character. It's not bad either, you still can sk or psycho crusher while having the threat of U2. They made the damage respectable now, which I found to be highly useful so I felt it was reasonable.

    Getting back to crouch hp as a viable AA I was just saying if everyone got tweaked, which I would prefer doesn't happen because I'm getting sick of relearning all the new subtle changes that can actually make a big difference in combat.

    Would be nice if we get glitch fixes, or fixing stuff that doesn't make sense (like Juri.) At the end of the day what I want the most is the Twins to pay their dues for all the characters they slaughtered.....
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222
    SFxT: Dictator +Juri /Lili (Alt)
    SSF4: BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 4,081Registered
    Out of all the characters that wound up being discussed here I didn't think Bison would be the one getting bantered back and forth lol.

    I agree with Mike, Gen's anti air U1 should be sped up so it actually works anti air. Make his Mantis U2 "lock in" on the animation like Yang's U1 if it hits also.
    "Who's the best character in SSF4? Well it certainly isn't MY character!" ~SRK SSF4 Tier List thread
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 19,534Registered, Premium
    This thread gonna make lose my mind.

    Did someone seriously say Ryu should have Guile recovery on his fireballs? Hell no, you lost your damn mind?

    Has Bison ever had a solid AA in any SF that wasn't jMP or sHK?
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    "Art reaches its greatest peak when devoid of self-consciousness. Freedom discovers man the moment he loses concern over what impression he is making or about to make." - Bruce Lee
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  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Gen and all the lower tier characters still need a few more things here and there. It may not bring them up in the tier charts but if it "squeezes" the tier more and makes the difference between A and C smaller, then it serves it's purpose.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 4,571Registered
    Out of all the characters that wound up being discussed here I didn't think Bison would be the one getting bantered back and forth lol.

    I agree with Mike, Gen's anti air U1 should be sped up so it actually works anti air. Make his Mantis U2 "lock in" on the animation like Yang's U1 if it hits also.

    it would make sense considering his normal anti air options are lacking, and he needs meter anyway to AA reliably

    Did someone seriously say Ryu should have Guile recovery on his fireballs? Hell no, you lost your damn mind?

    i ignored that one. i assumed it was a poor troll attempt.

    it works for guile because

    1. its a charge motion to throw it
    2. he cant use a follow up inv AA as soon as he rcovers
    fuck AE ranked matches
  • XgrayninjaXgrayninja Fumbling my way to the top. One loss at a time. Joined: Posts: 1,224Registered
    Just to clarify, I don't think Bison is a bad character at all in AE (on the contrary, he's probably the best charge character in the game). I'm just addressing some small flaws in his design that I feel should be looked at. But, if he remains largely untouched in the next update, I'll be fine with that. Like I said, even as is, he's a good character.
    Gotta be hungry.
  • ShadolooDollShadolooDoll asdaf Joined: Posts: 2,791Registered
    It just made me scratch my head they took bison's stand hk damage down by 20 points when he already had issues with jump ins....

    then again rose meter gain nerf made me scratch my head as well- esp when compared with the twins and their supers to go with it
    Just to clarify, I don't think Bison is a bad character at all in AE (on the contrary, he's probably the best charge character in the game). I'm just addressing some small flaws in his design that I feel should be looked at. But, if he remains largely untouched in the next update, I'll be fine with that. Like I said, even as is, he's a good character.

    pretty much this. I'm only offering suggestions if all characters received buffs. I just want twin nerfs honestly. And for good reason.
    R.I.P. sksksksksk222
    SFxT: Dictator +Juri /Lili (Alt)
    SSF4: BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!
  • RammaRamma Cody x Juri Joined: Posts: 899Registered
    yeah i agree. If anything was done to him that would be it if other characters got buffed. Honestly if they just nerfed the twins (Yun more so than Yang) I'd be happy. Don't get me wrong Bison is solid right now, i was assuming if the whole cast received a facelift he should get that. Like with juri it's not really buffs it's more like fixing....
    Well that's just it with Juri. More than anything else, she needs to be fixed. She needs buffs to be competitive, but she really needs to be fixed to be consistent.
    PSN: RammaCricket | XBL: xRammAx
    SSFIV: Cody, Juri | Alts: Sagat, Ryu ... SFxT: Juri, Hwoarang, Cody | Alts: Asuka, Ryu
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    This thread gonna make lose my mind.

    Did someone seriously say Ryu should have Guile recovery on his fireballs? Hell no, you lost your damn mind?

    Has Bison ever had a solid AA in any SF that wasn't jMP or sHK?

    Yes, that was me. I enjoy ST.



    It should be Guile-like recovery or very close to it. He could be nerfed in other areas if need be. I want ST Ryu in this game, doing what Ryu is not only known for, but what he is supposed to do best.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 4,081Registered
    Evil Ryu needs something to open people up more. Dunno what it woudl be, but as it stands he has far too difficult a time initiating offense, especially with such low health and stun.
    "Who's the best character in SSF4? Well it certainly isn't MY character!" ~SRK SSF4 Tier List thread
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 4,571Registered
    Evil Ryu needs something to open people up more. Dunno what it woudl be, but as it stands he has far too difficult a time initiating offense, especially with such low health and stun.

    i think he would be good if they made his fireball recovery better. make it like sagats high tiger shots in vanilla. i think it was 38 frames then.

    E.ryu's is 45 frames now if im not mistaken.
    fuck AE ranked matches
  • EternalEternal Joined: Posts: 1,954Registered
    Increase range on Makoto's Karakusas (currently outranged by Yun/Fei/Yang's similar command throws)
    Give Makoto a crouching 3frame of some sort
    Make Makoto's level 2 or greater Hayates break armor. (There is very little reason to ever charge them currently)
    Reduce stun / Damage on Oroshi, reduce startup frames on LP and MP oroshi. (Leave HP alone)
    Reduce stun from 100*120 to 100*100 for EX Tsurgi

    Give Dan his rolling Taunt
    Allow Dan to counter fireballs with his crouching taunt (gives no super meter however to Dan but prevents chip damage.)

    Make Cody's knife throw count as a 2 hit fireball instead of losing to fireballs entirely.
    Allow Cody to use Knife throw in mid air (have the knife land far away from Cody after throw however.)
    Improve Cody's backdash slightly.

    Remove Armor break on Yun's Lunge Punch. Increase recovery frames on EX to make it -1 on block instead of +1
    Reduce the time that Yun has a small hitbox when doing his shoulder so he can still dodge projectiles but has to time it more carefully.
    Reduce meter gain on Yun's wiffed palms. Also reduce active frames from the massive 15 frames.
    Reduce range on command throw from 1.1 to 0.95 and EX from 1.3 to 1.1
    Reduce Genei Jin duration from 7seconds to 6. OR Increase the combo damage scaling rate while under the effects of Genei Jin. (not both, one OR the other.)

    Chun Li - Remove Infinite Combo

    Gouken -
    Make hurricane kick not leave ground unless it connects with first hit. Still can be ducked, but no longer the SINGLE MOST punishable move in the game on block or wiff.
    Give him some decent normals (seriously they are almost all 5 frame startup at minimum with massive recovery.)

    Yang
    Reduce meter gain on wiffed palms
    Reduce range on roll to up kicks for MK and HK
    Reduce damage on mantis strikes. (slightly)

    Fei - Revert all buffs from Super to AE
    Reduce range (slightly) on Rekkas
    Reduce invincibility frames on HK and MK Chicken Wing (leave EX alone.)

    Akuma
    Reduce damage/Stun on HK and MK Hurricane Kick
    Reduce Stun (but not damage) on demon flip dive kick
    Increase damage on Super Combo from 330 to 360
  • XgrayninjaXgrayninja Fumbling my way to the top. One loss at a time. Joined: Posts: 1,224Registered
    I think we should also try and be vocal about, and maybe reach a consensus on, the characters we feel shouldn't changed at all. Makoto is one example that comes to mind. Oh, and maybe Ken. Personally, I don't think Fei Long needs to be changed at all, but I know others will disagree. There are obviously other characters that fit this bill, but I can't think of any right now.
    Gotta be hungry.
  • Staying FreeStaying Free Sacchin scenario? Joined: Posts: 327Registered
    I'm bored.

    Seth
    +j.HP limbs restored, stun reduced by 100 (believe it's 200 in Super.)
    +Ultra 1 regains projectile invincibility, damage lowered to 320, recovery kept the same
    +Ultra 2 damage boosted to 410
    +cr.LK start up lowered to 4f
    +cr.LP start up lowered to 3f
    +cr.HP start up lowered to 8f
    +cst.MP and cst.HP activation range significantly increased
    +cst.LP connects on crouching opponents
    +Dive kick descends faster, hit and block stun remain the same
    +EX Hyakuretsukyaku is projectile invincible for it's entire duration
    +Teleport recovery returned to vanilla status
    - Health reduced to 750
    - All versions of Hyakuretsukyaku do 120/150
    - Tanden Engine scales combos
    - MP and HP Shoryuken invincibility duration lowered to 4f, EX retains AE invincibility values
    - HP Super no longer grabs opponents from full screen
    - Ultra 1 cannot be done on connected or absorbed Sonic Booms
    - cr.HP damage lowered to 50*20
    - cst.MP damage lowered to 65
    - cst.HP damage lowered to 80
    - All SPD versions do 100 stun
    - Seth gains slightly less meter from all versions of Shoryuken, his dive kick, and from connected Head stomps

    Yun
    - Health reduced to 850
    - Stun reduced to 850
    - Hurt boxes on cr.MP, cr.MK, st.MP extended
    - EX Lunge is now 0 on block
    - EX Lunge has a bigger hurt box on the lower portion of Yun's body
    - EX Shoulder Lunge does not go through fireballs as easily
    - HK Dragon Kicks does not go as far
    - During Genei Jin, palm and overhead damage have been reduced significantly
    - EX Command Grab has slightly less range
    - Palm builds slightly less meter

    Gouki
    + The second hit of fst.HK no longer whiffs on some crouching opponents
    + EX Goshoryuken does 10 more damage on each connected hit
    - Health reduced to 800

    Yang
    - Stun reduced to 900
    - Linking into cst.MK is now a 1f link
    - Palm builds slightly less meter
    I can't play nice on forums, so I figured I would start lurking.
  • RindoukanKarateManRindoukanKarateMan I like Karate Girls Joined: Posts: 504Registered
    Giving that to Ryu wouldn't to that to the game. I think Ryu should be balance around his fireball. Did you even play ST at all? Ryu was fun to play in that game and fireball traps are a big reason for it.

    Additionally, nearly every character now has multiple ways to get past fireballs now, I think you are over reacting.

    @ HNIC Mike --- ok, I will admit the Chicken Wing issue. That does need to stay the same, other then that he should go back to Super Spec imo.
    Do you know how hard it is to get in on guile? he argubly has the BEST recovery on his booms. Also this isn't ST. And Ryu still has really good recovery on his hadouken. what they could do though is give him back the active frames on his crouching forward (not even sure why that got nerfed) and maybe give him back his air tatsu. Even though I hated run away ryus.
    3rd strike-Makoto dudley
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 4,571Registered
    wait. dude is trying to buff makoto?

    and an air knife toss for cody?
    what they could do though is give him back the active frames on his crouching forward (not even sure why that got nerfed)

    it was really hard to play footsies with ryu for many of the lower tier characters. just about every character outside of the top 10-15. almost exclusively because of cr.mk. more so because of the combo of cr.mk and a really good fireball, and a fast good ranged sweep.
    fuck AE ranked matches
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Fei certainly needs to be changed a bit. As well as the Yun.

    I agree that Makoto is fine. So is Viper.

    But I also think that Ultra damage should be lowered across the board while Super damage is increased.
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Karakusa is cheap Joined: Posts: 4,081Registered
    Naw, Ryu doesn't need roflcopter back. He can already space a lot of characters out well with his AA normals, SRKs, and fireballs. Getting him to the corner should be rewarding for grapplers, he doesn't need an "LOL SEE YA" option. And this is cmoing from someone who's played a fair amount of Ryu.
    "Who's the best character in SSF4? Well it certainly isn't MY character!" ~SRK SSF4 Tier List thread
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,138Registered
    Do you know how hard it is to get in on guile? he argubly has the BEST recovery on his booms. Also this isn't ST. And Ryu still has really good recovery on his hadouken. what they could do though is give him back the active frames on his crouching forward (not even sure why that got nerfed) and maybe give him back his air tatsu. Even though I hated run away ryus.

    It's obvious you don't/didn't play ST. Do YOU know how hard it is to get in on O.Sagat? lol, @ guile in SF4
    "Infiltration just throws out max range sweeps all day and gets instant 4 way guessing games on each one, meanwhile Daigo gets near nothing from every knockdown. Switch to a vortex character if you want to win in this game, the metagame has entered its final stage" ~ Stress, Comments on SF25th Anniversary Finals, Dec/08/2012

    I also play Racing games.
    PSN: Graphf
  • XgrayninjaXgrayninja Fumbling my way to the top. One loss at a time. Joined: Posts: 1,224Registered
    Rufus is another character that I feel doesn't need any changes at all.
    Gotta be hungry.
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