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SSF4 AE Rose Match-up Thread

sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIVJoined: Posts: 986Registered
Rose AE Match-Up Thread

Since AE is about to come out, and every character has been changed in some aspect, I thought it was necessary to make an AE match-up thread, to consolidate all the match-up information in this iteration of SF4. If you're looking for Super match-up information, you can check those out here:

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/its-in-the-cards-ssfiv-rose-new-matchup-thread.105459/
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/rose-strategies-and-match-ups.56144/page-17 (Starting from the bottom-half of p.17)

There are 39 characters in the game now, which means there are more match-ups for us to learn.

vs. Abel:

vs. Adon:

vs. Akuma:

vs. Balrog (Boxer):
Match-up (in numbers): 5-5 (Although many can argue it's in Balrog's favor)

What should be my general strategy against Balrog (Boxer)?

As Rose, this match-up can be difficult because of Balrog's jab. He can use it to pressure you, punish unsafe strings on block, and use it as an easy hit-confirm into headbutt. In this match-up, you want to try baiting out a lot of unsafe moves as possible, and using safe pressure.

Balrog's strengths:

+ Jab basically gives him free pressure.
+ Dash Punches can be problematic on wake-up.

Balrog's weaknesses:

- Doesn't really have any.

To take notice:

Close Range:

+ cr.MP is a great bait for headbutts, so use it to end strings.
+ Rose can punish his Dash Swing overhead, or his Dash Low Straight (both are -5 on block, so cr.MP xx Spiral will work).
+ Frame traps are really useful to punish Balrog when he gets too happy with jabs.

- His jab can easily create troubling pressure (i.e. jab -> tick throw)
- Any poorly spaced Spiral can easily be punished by his jab into a knockdown combo.
- Cannot do c.MP xx Spiral freely, as Balrog can just headbutt in-between into Ultra for additional damage.
- Every time Rose does a string, Balrog will have his charge, allowing him to punish even Spark strings.

Mid-Range:

+ cr.MK is great for making his headbutt whiff.
+ Slide is great for punishing both versions of Dash Punch (Regular and EX)
+ EX ST is great for punishing his j.RH, which can be tricky to AA with cr.HP at times.

- Cannot use projectiles from mid-screen as they are easily punishable by a Dash Punch.
- Balrog's j.RH can be tricky to AA with cr. HP at times.

Far Range:

+ Spark can be a good pestering tool from full screen, especially if he does not have meter.

Wake-Up:

+ You can easily punish wake-up headbutt with cr.HP xx Spiral (Doing c.MK is a great bait for headbutts, as it makes them whiff - listed a bit earlier).
+ You can do cross-ups to make him lose his charge, and thus limit his options.

- Balrog can easily time a jab on your wake-up such that you're baited into doing EX Spiral.
- He can mix you up with his Dash Swing overhead or his Dash Low Straight, forcing you to guess high or low.

Preferred Ultra:

Which Ultra is best for this match-up?

U1 is highly considered to be the better Ultra in this match-up, as it severely limits his options (especially full-screen), and is a great punisher for some of his moves as well.

U1:

+ Can easily be used to punish attempted jump-ins, whiffed/blocked headbutts, or mid/full-screen Dash Punches.

- If blocked or whiffed, you are vulnerable to big damage.

U2:

+ Makes Balrog respect your space, and cannot go freely in to pressure (i.e. being more hesitant to throw out jabs)

- Cannot be used when you are being pressured, and it can be punished if you attempt to use it after a blocked Spiral string.

vs. Blanka:

vs. Cammy:

vs. Chun-Li:

vs. Cody:

vs. C.Viper:

vs. Dan:

vs. Dee-Jay:

vs. Dhalsim:

vs. Dudley:

vs. El Fuerte:

vs. E. Honda:

vs. Evil Ryu:

vs. Fei-Long:

vs. Gen:

vs. Gouken:

vs. Guile:
Match-up (in numbers): 6-4 Rose

What should be my general strategy against Guile?

Rose is one of the characters that beats Guile hands down because of solely one tool that she has; her reflect. Very similar to the Ryu match-up, Rose beats Guile both full-screen and close-range. From full screen, Rose can keep doing Soul Reflect (LP) to build meter quickly. At close-range, Rose can use normals such as c.MP to stuff a good amount of Guile's normals, and limit his already limited offensive options.

Guile's strengths:

+ Can turtle very well, making it tough if you don't have the life lead.

Guile's weaknesses:

- Unlike other characters, Guile can't lock down Rose with projectiles.
- Cannot deal with cross-ups.

To take notice:

Close Range:

+ You can punish in-between his 2 hits of c.HK.
+ c.MP is a great bait for his Flash Kicks.

- Cannot do c.MP xx Spiral strings too much, since he can Flash Kick in-between (c.MP xx LP Spark may be a better alternative)

Mid Range:

+ When spaced well enough, Guile cannot punish blocked Spirals with Flash Kicks.
+ c.HP solidly beats all his jumping attacks, making it a very reliable anti-air.
+ If timed right, slide can go underneath his projectiles.

- Since his Sonic Boom has very small recovery, it's hard to hit him with a jumping attack.
- Have to be careful playing a mid-screen fireball game, due to the poor recovery of her Soul Spark.
- Cannot jump at him freely, since he has multiple options (Flash Kick or c.HP anti-air, or jump -> air throw)

Far Range:

+ Soul Reflect (LP) is incredibly useful in building meter quickly when playing a full-screen fireball game (especially given the nature of Guile players to throw a lot of Sonic Booms)
+ With each projectile collision, you are building meter at a significantly quicker rate than he is.
+ Due to the reduced meter build on his Sonic Boom and slower start-up on some of his normals/moves, Guile has a harder time.

Wake-Up:

+ Guile has a very hard time dealing with cross-ups, as Flash Kicks do not auto-correct.
+ Flash Kicks are very unsafe on block (> -30), so it's very easy to punish with a damaging combo.
+ He has limited offensive options, so he can't pressure you very well compared to other characters.

- On your wake-up, he can create decent mix-ups with his overhead.

Preferred Ultra:

In this match-up, there is no clear cut winner as to which Ultra is the better Ultra. Personally for me, I like to use U2 as it's a good pressuring tool on his wake-up, but U1 has some uses as well (especially for punishing blocked Flash Kicks).

U1:

+ Limits his mobility options from mid-screen.
+ Great punisher for whiffed or blocked Flash Kicks.

- Can be hard to punish his Sonic Booms with it, due to its incredibly fast recovery.
- If blocked or whiffed, it gives him the opportunity to close-in and deal damage.

U2:

+ Can be a great pressuring tool on his wake-up, especially when using cross-up ST as it's active.
+ Forces him to respect your space, and cannot press buttons freely.

- If used from full-screen, it's easier for Guile to get rid of the orbs by throwing projectiles.
Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
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Comments

  • sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIV Joined: Posts: 986Registered
    Part 2:

    vs. Guy:

    vs. Hakan:

    vs. Ibuki:

    vs. Juri:

    vs. Ken:

    vs. Makoto:

    vs. M.Bison (Dictator):
    Match-up (in numbers): 5-5 (Although some may argue it's very slightly in Bison's favor)

    What should be my general strategy against M. Bison?

    In Super, Bison was able to shut down Rose's fireball game pretty easily with U2, and pressure with Scissor Kicks all day. However, in AE, with the changed motion to his U2, and the increased pushback distance on his blocked Scissor Kicks, it makes the match-up a bit easier for Rose. Your strategy here is to try to have a life lead while maintaining a mid-screen game, where Rose is most strong. Having a life lead will force him to come to you, which is one of his weaknesses.

    To take notice:

    Normals and moves:

    + s.MK is great for stuffing his cr.short, which easily hit-confirms into Scissor Kicks.
    + s.HK is great for punishing far blocked Psycho Crushers.
    + s.HK goes over his cr. LK, useful for those that like to mash crouch tech.
    + cr.MP is useful for punishing poorly spaced or blocked MK / HK / EX Scissor Kicks.
    + cr.MP is a good bait for Psycho Crusher, as some Bison players will assume you would finish the string with Spiral.
    + EX ST stuffs his j.HP, and attempted headstomps.
    + s.MK is useful for stuffing attempted Scissor Kicks at certain distances.
    + EX Spark is a great O/S for punishing wake-up teleports.
    + Rose can be a bit more liberal with her projectiles, due to the U2 nerf.
    + Stand blocking Scissor Kicks will put Rose in a position where she can punish easier.
    + Slide is good for counter poking a whiffed s.MK.
    + Slide is useful for head stomp attempts.
    + Whenever you're pressured in the corner by his Scissor Kicks, you can jump back and do j.HP, getting a free combo if he tries to go for Scissor Kicks again.

    - Bison can punish in-between c.MP xx Spiral with Psycho Crusher.
    - Poorly spaced Spiral strings can easily result in a cr.short -> knockdown.
    - c.HP does sometimes lose to j.HP, depending on where he jumps in.
    - Jump-ins can be problematic, as it allows him to easily start Scissor Kick pressure.

    Wake-Up:

    + You can trick Bison into wasting meter by timing a meaty cr. LK on his wake-up, as this will make his EX Psycho Crusher whiff.
    + You can easily punish Bison's Psycho Crusher on his wake-up by blocking, and using s.HK.
    + EX Spark O/S will beat out any wake-up teleports.

    - Bison can do Psycho Crusher on your wake-up, forcing you to block and guess a tricky cross-up.
    - Bison can easily bait an EX Spiral by whiffing a meaty short on your wake-up, and punishing accordingly.
    - EX Spiral is a poor pressuring tool on his wake-up, as he can easily stuff it with many moves.

    Preferred Ultra:

    Which Ultra is best for this match-up?

    Both Ultras work well in this match-up, there isn't one that is preferred more than the other.

    U1:

    + Can punish wake-up teleports, poorly spaced headstomps, and blocked Psycho Crushers.

    - If blocked or whiffed, you are vulnerable to big damage.

    U2:

    + Forces him to respect your space (can't do headstomps or Scissor Kicks freely)

    - Doesn't deal a good amount of damage, and is useless when you're trying to activate it during Scissor Kick pressure.

    vs. Oni:

    vs. Rose (mirror match):

    vs. Rufus:

    vs. Ryu:
    Match-up (in numbers): 6-4 Rose

    What should be my general strategy against Ryu?

    Rose is considered the anti-shoto, especially against Ryu. From full screen, you can easily build meter with Soul Reflect (LP) while he's chucking fireballs at you. At close range, you win the footsies battle as you have the better normals to work with. To win against Ryu, you need to take advantage of both ranges. As with any character, the one thing you need to avoid is knockdowns.

    To take notice:

    Normals and moves:

    + Both s.MK and s.HK are useful pokes that beat out a lot of Ryu's crouching normals (c.MK for instance).
    + c.MP can be an irritating normal for him to deal with (can also be a great bait for SRK's).
    + c.HP solidly beats all of his jumping attacks.
    + If timed right, slide can go underneath his projectiles.
    + Soul Spark (LP) is great for baiting out a late tatsu, due to the slow speed of the projectile.
    + Soul Reflect (LP) is incredibly useful in building meter quickly when playing a full-screen fireball game.
    + EX Spiral can blow through his c.MK xx Hadouken when used in-between.
    + Due to the changed arc to Ryu's jump tatsu, it's harder for him to escape corner pressure.

    - Cannot jump in on him easily, since SRK is a great AA, and it has good invincibility.
    - Cannot go for too many untrue blockstrings, since he can SRK in-between (c.mp xx Spiral)
    - Cannot play too much of a fireball game from mid-screen due to the poor recovery of her Soul Spark (leaves you susceptible to a jumping attack)
    - His cr. MP can stuff s.MK.
    - He has solid mix-ups once you're knocked down.

    Wake-Up:

    + Safe jumps can really limit his wake-up game.
    + Intentionally mistimed meaties are useful in baiting DP's.

    - With his SRK, sometimes you are forced to respect his wake-up game.
    - Ryu's OS can really shutdown a lot of Rose's wake-up options.

    Preferred Ultra:

    What Ultra is best for this match-up?

    U1 is considered to be the better Ultra to use in this match-up, although U2 can be effective as well.

    U1:

    + Limits his options from full screen (can't jump freely).

    + Dashing forward after reflecting a projectile with Soul Reflect (MP) is a great set-up.

    - If blocked or whiffed, you are vulnerable to big damage.

    - If he has one bar, he can dodge U1 on reaction with an air EX tatsu.

    U2:

    + Forces him to respect your space.

    - If used at full screen, it's easier for Ryu to get rid of the orbs by throwing projectiles.

    vs. Sagat:

    vs. Sakura:

    vs. Seth:

    vs. T.Hawk:
    Match-up (in numbers): 4.5-5.5 T.Hawk

    What should be my general strategy against T.Hawk?

    Like with all grappler matchups, Rose wins against T. Hawk by keeping him and whittling down his health with pokes, AA and fireballs. Unlike other grappler matchups however, T. Hawk has some unique and tricky tools to get in with. Fortunately, Rose has all the tools to counter T. Hawk with but they require the player to know exactly what situations to use them in and the reactions to successfully react to the situations. As usual, the risk-reward ratio is skewed against Rose. She cannot safely mixup Hawk. She can keep Hawk out the whole round and then lose to a single hard knockdown and a series of good guesses on Hawk’s part. This matchup is generally a grind and requires you to be on point the entire time.

    To take notice:

    Normals and moves:

    + F+HK and s. HK are great for punishing blocked Condor Dives.
    + Rose's s.MK stuffs T. Hawk's c.MK
    + Jumping back LK is a great instant overhead, and can be used after a safe jump fierce.
    + T. Hawk's s.HK will whiff when Rose is crouching.
    + A well timed c.HP will stuff any of his jumping attacks.
    + A delayed ST is good for catching Condor Dives.
    + Slide is good for far-angled Condor Dives.

    - Cannot rely too much on projectiles, since Condor Spire allows him to punish far from jumping distance.
    - c.HP can't be too much of a relied anti-air; loses to Condor Dive.
    - Condor Dive, Condor Spire, and close-ranged cr. HK will beat backdashes.
    - st. HK and Tomahawk Buster will beat jump attempts.
    - Cross-up Condor Dive can be very ambiguous to block.
    - st. MK will whiff-punish Rose’s slide.
    - st. HK will punish attempts to jump after a knockdown
    - cr. MK goes under Rose’s st. HK.

    Wake-Up:

    + cl.MK is a good pressuring tool on T. Hawk's wake-up when he does NOT have meter (if he has meter, watch out for EX Tomahawk Buster)
    + EX Spiral is good for dealing with cross-up splashes.
    + EX ST is useful for beating mistimed safe jump non cross-ups.

    - T. Hawk can safe jump you with LP Tomahawk Buster.
    - EX Spiral will lose to non cross-up slashes.
    - EX ST will lose to cross-up splashes.

    Preferred Ultra:

    What Ultra is best preferred for this match-up?

    Both Ultras have their merit in this matchup.

    U1:

    + Great punisher for unsafe Condor Dives.
    + Useful for punishing T.Hawk players that like to mash command throws.

    - If whiffed or blocked, Rose is susceptible to big damage / knockdown.
    - Allows T. Hawk to get in if the attempt is unsuccessful.

    U2:

    + Useful for T.Hawk players that like to play more safely.
    + Can help pressure T. Hawk on wake-up.

    - A well timed command throw can stuff U2.
    - You won't be able to punish unsafe Condor Dives with big damage.

    vs. Vega (Claw):

    vs. Yang:
    Match-up (in numbers): 6-4 Yang

    What should be my general strategy against Yang?

    Although Yang may not have as deadly of an offense as Yun, his offense can still be very potent. Similar to the match-up against Yun, you want to zone him out so he doesn't get in and mix you up or reset you to death. The catch is that Yang has more of a solid defense than Yun does, so he has more ways of dealing with pressure.

    To take notice:

    Normals and moves:

    + cl.MK can lead to potential frame traps.
    + s.FP can easily stuff his far dive kicks if spaced correctly due to his hitbox in front of his foot.
    + c.MP beats a good amount of Yang's normals.
    + c.RH is great to punish Yang players that like to dash in a lot for pressure.
    + Slide helps to get in on him, and will even beat some of his dive kicks/normals.
    + Soul Piede is great to punish Yang as an AA on his way up.
    + Far standing MK will stuff a lot of his lows, and is extremely helpful against those that like to use cr. short a lot. If you get a CH off of it, you have a good amount of time to hit-confirm into cr. MP. Also, it can stuff roll kicks.
    + cr.LP is useful for punishing mistimed dive kicks.
    + Using properly spaced Spirals will not only set-up your offense, but can also be a reliable AA if timed right.
    + Use ST to punish badly timed jumps or dive kicks within range.

    - If Yang does a crouch tech, and you do cl.MK, it will whiff.
    - c.MP sometimes loses to his cr.short, making it an easy hit-confirm into Rekka.
    - c.HP can lose to quick or delayed dive kicks.
    - s.FP does have a horrible hitbox, so it isn't too reliable.
    - Rolling Kick limits your fireball game.
    - Yang's dive kick can be considered more problematic than Yun's.
    - Yang's U2 cannot be safe jumped.

    Wake-Up:

    + Unlike Yun's HK and EX Upkicks which travel him to the other side of the screen, all versions of Yang's Rolling Kick are easily punishable on block.

    - Yang's meaty Palm pretty much beats out all of Rose's wake-up options, so you MUST block.
    - Yang can use EX Teleport to get out of pressure.

    Preferred Ultra:

    Which Ultra is best for this match-up?

    Both Ultras work well in this match-up, but U1 is the preferred Ultra.

    U1:

    +Great punishing Ultra for many of Yang's options, such as a blocked Rolling Kick, and untrue blockstrings.
    + Like Yun, he has low stamina, so if you land the Ultra, he will take a significant amount of damage.

    - If whiffed or blocked, you are vulnerable to a big combo.

    U2:

    + Can be used to generate an offense, such as after a knockdown.

    - Cannot be used when he's in close range, and you're being pressured.
    vs. Yun:
    Match-up (in numbers): 6-4 Yun

    What should be my general strategy against Yun?

    As Rose, you want to zone Yun out so he doesn't get in, and start mixing you up to death. You really cannot afford to let him get in, as you have poor reversal options, and he has every offensive tool that is a nightmare for Rose; dive kicks, safe normals, and a command grab.

    To take notice:

    Normals and moves:

    + s.MP and FP is great for stuffing dive kicks at far range (Note: Spiral works as well if timed right)
    + Use ST to catch his jumps and close dive kick attempts
    + Use slide to beat out EX Lunge Punch, if you see it coming.
    + s.MK stuffs all his lows.

    - cr.MP is not as effective in this match-up, as it loses to dive kicks at times, and some of his pokes.
    - cr.HP can lose to quick or delayed dive kicks.
    - Don't backdash too often, as you can be punished with Lunge Punch.
    - Due to EX Lunge Punch being +1 on block, it makes it pretty easy for him to get in.
    - EX Shoulder and U2 limits your fireball game.

    Wake-Up:

    + You can punish his LK and MK regular upkicks when whiffed.

    - Yun's meaty Palm beats out pretty much all of Rose's wake-up options, so you MUST block.
    - Yun's HK and EX Upkicks travel him to the other side of the screen, making it hard to punish.

    Preferred Ultra:

    What Ultra is best for this match-up?

    Both Ultras do work well, but U1 is the preferred Ultra.

    U1:

    + Limits far dive kicks and lunge punches.

    + Landing it will take a significant chunk of his health, as he has low stamina.

    - If whiffed or blocked, you may lose a significant amount of life as you are vulnerable to a big combo.

    U2:

    + Can be used for mix-ups after a knockdown.

    - Cannot be used if he's in close range, and you're being pressured.

    vs. Zangief:
    Match-up (in numbers): 5-5

    What should be my general strategy against Zangief?

    Zangief is a grappler that heavily relies on getting within close range for his damage. As Rose, you want to establish your space against him, and keep him out. Use Rose's great normals to accomplish this goal. Once you're knocked down, you're going to be forced to make a guess; you want to be making the correct guesses to get out of pressure, and save yourself from a lot of damage.

    To take notice:

    Normals and moves:

    + s.HP, c.HP, and F+HK (from an appropriate distance), are all reliable anti-airs.
    + s.HK is a great poking tool.
    + nj. fierce and j.fierce are great air-to-air normals against him.
    + cl.MK is a great command throw bait, and even beats his Lariat if timed right (making it useful as a meaty)
    + Max range LK Spirals will make his SPD whiff if you walk backwards.
    + You can throw him out of Green Hand.
    + Spark strings work well in pushing you out of his SPD range.
    + EX ST is useful for punishing badly mistimed jumps or cross-up Splashes.
    + You can use Sparks to pester Zangief from full screen (mostly LP spark), and use F+HK to punish if he uses Lariat to make it whiff.
    + EX Green Hand no longer knocks down on hit, making it one less knockdown for you to worry about.
    + c.MP xx LK Spiral works at max distance, due to Zangief's large hitbox.

    - Zangief has very high stamina and stun compared to other characters.
    - Changes to his U2 now make it possible for him to punish backdashes.
    - Any blocked Spiral will usually equal to eating a SPD, they have to be spaced extremely well.
    - Slide isn't reliable against him, since he can punish that with SPD as well.
    - Increased jab SPD range makes it more dangerous to whiff normals against him at a distance.
    - His Lariat makes it impossible to jump in on him, forcing you to play more of a ground approach.
    - s.MP beats a lot of her normals.
    - He is extremely dangerous in the corner.

    Wake-Up:

    + Meaty cl.MK beats a good amount of Zangief's options, except EX Green Hand and Lariat.

    - If Zangief has U2, you can be punished if you try to backdash or jump, forcing you to play a risky guessing game.
    - His Splashes can be very ambiguous to block.

    Preferred Ultra:

    What Ultra is best for this match-up?

    U1 is heavily agreed to be the better Ultra in this match-up, especially given the U2 nerf in AE.

    U1:

    + Limits his movement from full screen.

    + Great for punishing whiffed Lariats, and EX Green Hand.

    - If whiffed, it makes it a lot easier for him to close the distance gap quickly.

    U2:

    + Decent damage.

    - With Lariat, you can't really rely on U2 jump cross-up set-ups.

    - If you want to deal damage with the orbs, you're going to have to wander within SPD range.

    - Cannot be used if you're being pressured or if he's in close range (note: Even if he does SPD you in frame 6 of your Ultra, you will still lose the orbs after hitting the ground, despite keeping them in the process of getting SPD'ed).
    Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
    Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
    Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
  • BluefalconBluefalcon Soul Rockz! Joined: Posts: 98Registered
    omg thx sk <3
    A new thread is good cuz no one updated the super thread. We should discuss 1 character per week, collect all the stuff and edit it in the first post. Okay?

    Today I got FUCKED from nearly everyone, it was so ... can't describe it ;_;

    an unrelated questen: can everyone understand my english? ^^'
    SSF4/AE: Rose, Cody
    Put your punches where your mouth is and actually try to hit me!
  • sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIV Joined: Posts: 986Registered
    I think that's a great idea, so the thread is organized. I'll let everyone know, and we can start going down the list. I'll ask if they prefer going in alphabetical order, or by match-ups they have the most trouble with.
    Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
    Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
    Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
  • RoseRose DRS filipin0man Joined: Posts: 1,762Registered
    Well, you have a few hiccups here and there. But it's understandable. It should've been "I was fucked by nearly everyone" :).

    We should do by voting which characters we want for the week.
    Let the spirits guide you.
  • Bardo PondBardo Pond Joined: Posts: 35Registered
    omg thx sk <3
    A new thread is good cuz no one updated the super thread. We should discuss 1 character per week, collect all the stuff and edit it in the first post. Okay?

    Today I got FUCKED from nearly everyone, it was so ... can't describe it ;_;

    an unrelated questen: can everyone understand my english? ^^'

    I know exactly how you feel, we'll get there though. I couldn't tell you weren't a natural English speaker so I don't think you have a problem. I think maybe we should do it alphabetically as to avoid people getting disappointed when we don't do a character they're having trouble with and it's generally a lot easier to organise. That's my two cents.
  • jason87jason87 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    matches i know pretty well: akuma balrog blanka cammy chun cody viper dudley guile guy ken bison ryu sagat sakura
    rest of the matchups are usually obscure, unnecessary, or redundant.
    Ask if you want me to write up specifics on how to approach the match.
  • DarmondeDarmonde aka JohnNiner Joined: Posts: 251Registered
    Though the idea of focusing on 1 char/wk sounds good, I think its a bit much for this project, plus it would take 10 months to finish the list. We have maybe 10 people with good ideas? Maybe just ask people to volunteer to do the initial writeup for 5-6 matches they feel comfortable with, then after we have that basic info down we can get into discussions and edits. The last couple matchup threads had great ideas and ended up 75% incomplete. I think all the Rose board regulars know the main posters and good players, it shouldn't be hard sorting out the good info.

    As an aside, I've been having a terrible run with AE so far. Help needed.
    L-L-L-Maximum
  • Bardo PondBardo Pond Joined: Posts: 35Registered
    Though the idea of focusing on 1 char/wk sounds good, I think its a bit much for this project, plus it would take 10 months to finish the list. We have maybe 10 people with good ideas? Maybe just ask people to volunteer to do the initial writeup for 5-6 matches they feel comfortable with, then after we have that basic info down we can get into discussions and edits. The last couple matchup threads had great ideas and ended up 75% incomplete. I think all the Rose board regulars know the main posters and good players, it shouldn't be hard sorting out the good info.

    As an aside, I've been having a terrible run with AE so far. Help needed.

    I hope it doesn't sound narky but it would be nice to get specifics on every character or at least tell people what the general game plan is because the old guides were a bit vague. I think this could be a really good opportunity to get the definative guide done. Maybe we shouldn't take ten months but there is no point rushing it.
  • sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIV Joined: Posts: 986Registered
    39 weeks would certainly be a lot just to fill out the entire match-up chart. We could always discuss two characters per week, putting it under 5 months. It's going to be inevitably a long process. There are many ways to approach this, and I just want to make sure we choose the best option so we can avoid what happened in the previous match-up threads, where the first post was either outdated, or it was scrambled such that it was hard to find information regarding a specific match-up.
    Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
    Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
    Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
  • jason87jason87 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    split up the work. I mean the general approach versus certain characters overlap. Someone do shotos. Someone do the obscure matches(e.g. fighting Vega is sorta random for me). Someone explain her good matchups. Someone explain defensive ones. Split among 10 people, that's 4 characters per. Probably more since i doubt we can get 10 people to write 4 character writeups. Then the editing and revision, and so on...
  • BlackNoobBlackNoob Ultimate Loser Joined: Posts: 224Registered
    I think someone should start with Yun, please.
  • BluefalconBluefalcon Soul Rockz! Joined: Posts: 98Registered
    We should start a poll.alphabetical or mu related.
    SSF4/AE: Rose, Cody
    Put your punches where your mouth is and actually try to hit me!
  • sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIV Joined: Posts: 986Registered
    I'll see if I can add in a poll, with all the suggestions thus far.
    Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
    Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
    Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
  • exsoldier2006exsoldier2006 BaconStripes!! Joined: Posts: 293Registered
    Yun match up is kinda ass with the rushing in with drop kicks and crap arghhh >.< But, I think you can caught Yun EX-Punch that goes mad far with Ex soul throw it's just happen sometimes. You could zone him but, as soon the dive kick are in that it lol. I have no knowledge of this match up right now. Sorry for my bad grammar xD lol...
    "Prince Vegeta ruler of all Saiyans!!"
  • sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIV Joined: Posts: 986Registered
    Here's the poll: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-regarding-ae-rose-match-up-thread.138598/

    Please vote, and give any thoughts or concerns you may have.
    Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
    Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
    Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
  • spiffygspiffyg Soul F*** Joined: Posts: 130Registered
    Going crazy trying to find ways to punish Yun and Yang's divekicks, I've been using st. hp a lot more than I used to. You'd never see me use that damn move before but now I find it effective in stopping a dive kick (especially useful against Rufus, Yun, and Yang). I also use it for short jump-ins. As in, they aren't jumping in close enough to be able to hit you, but just short. Needs to pretty much be an empty jump for you to take no damage. But I like to use it if I need one more hit to win and I have enough heath to take a hit. People don't expect for Rose to be able to punish a short jump-in because cr. hp's hitbox doesn't go out that far and soul throw also would not reach.

    But of course, "a lot more than I used to" means I'll use it maybe once every couple of rounds. It's still a pretty shitty normal, but it does have SOME uses! :)
    SSFIVAE
    PC :: spiffygaro
    PSN :: hnrfp
  • Oathkeeper89Oathkeeper89 #1 Saikyo of San Francisco Joined: Posts: 482Registered
    Perhaps we could just have a section dedicated to defense against dive kicks. Yun, Yang, Rufus, Akuma, Oni, Cammy, etc.

    Speaking of dive kicks, can Rose even punish/anti-air against dive kicks? I've tried to cr.hp and focus xx backdash but I end up still getting hit on my recovery frames (or something) by some mix-up I cannot identify. If they do a dive kick right above our heads, does that count as a cross-up? How can I identify when a dive kick will cross up?
  • eraser2224eraser2224 Joined: Posts: 579Registered
    A couple things I've noticed fighting Yun. EX lunge is pretty easily stuffed with slide. It works really well if they are about just like right outside of sweep range. If you can keep them away and they start getting frustrated, you can tell when they want to do it... Dive kicks seem to be pretty impossible to beat with upward hitting moves in my experience, meaning you can't just OS with cr.hp like against rufus. My favorite button for them at the moment when they're around sweep range trying to dive kick in is standing mp. Either that or when you see the dive kick backdash and cr.mp or something. Problem with that of course is if you do it too much you're in the corner...
  • spiffygspiffyg Soul F*** Joined: Posts: 130Registered
    Try experimenting with standing hp to deal with dive-kicks. It hits them clean. But it can be baited and punished!

    I made a really shitty image in paint to give you a nice visual of the optimal distancing for this to work.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/GaroDoe/divekick.jpg

    It still works if Yun is closer but you might trade. And in that case, you still do more damage to him than he does to you! And I'm pretty sure Rufus and Yang have really similar hitboxes to Yun.

    I even made a video (because I have nothing better to do... lol). It's on 3DS, so no Yun in this video. There's a glare and the quality is pretty terrible so I'm apologizing in advance, but you get the picture!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftexVnhh_Gk

    That last divekick was NOT out of range, I just pressed hp too late.
    SSFIVAE
    PC :: spiffygaro
    PSN :: hnrfp
  • BluefalconBluefalcon Soul Rockz! Joined: Posts: 98Registered
    Gaaawd. Yun is soo broken >_<
    most normals r + on block, his dive kick fucks me up, his specials r save for the most time and his scrubby ex punch is ... ah fuck this shit ._.
    SSF4/AE: Rose, Cody
    Put your punches where your mouth is and actually try to hit me!
  • jason87jason87 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    st fierce is definitely good if the yuns are jumping in at full screen to 3/4 screen. Up close its much harder. I like to react with st. strong around footsies WHEN i see him divekick. Also, after a blockstring, i like to buffer ex ST and press it if the yuns looking to divekick.
  • HeavyweightHeavyweight Joined: Posts: 169Registered
    CEO was a blast this weekend. It also gave me some questions. Most of my tournament I ended up playing U1 against the twins. It seems to shut down alot of options. However, I had a question, against Fei, do you Rose players feel like U2 is still worth it to make him respect our options and not just Rekka all day?

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    SSF4 2012: Sakura
    UMVC3:Dante, Morrigan, Strider Spencer, Vergil, Felicia
    3S: Hugo
  • jason87jason87 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    @heavyweight
    i've prolly said it to death, but it is MY OPINION that at high level play, you won't ever get off ultra 1. I prefer U2 just b/c even if i can't get the setup off, it still gives me wakeup shenanigans and tick throw options. Especially in the corner, with enough practice, U2 can be absolutely deadly and can help you open up the best of them. That said here's the setup again. For feilong, i usually aim for a Bthrow or Sweep once i get enough Ultra meter. With a bthrow, i U2 RIGHT AWAY, spam slide during the U2 animation and and spam corner HP ST during the slide animation. It'll stuff out his reversals and he has to block crossup, if you hit your timings tight. With a sweep, I dash U2 and then HP ST.
  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 435Registered
    I personally still like U1 since I can catch chicken wings with it. I don't think U2 would stop him from doing random rekka since U2 is so slow now, and he can pop orbs with EX rekkas now.
  • VecayseVecayse SoonKyu Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Jason wouldn't ex chickenwing beat both the reflect and the U2?
  • sksksksksk222sksksksksk222 MvC 3 / SSFIV Joined: Posts: 986Registered
    I usually go with U2 against Fei, especially against good ones as well. The good Fei players will watch out for U1, and if it is blocked, you're in for quite a bit of damage. If you do plan on using U1 in this match-up, you're definitely going to need to do a bit of baiting here. Although U2 is pretty much safe at a distance now, it definitely makes Fei respect your space when active.
    Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition - Rose
    Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - Zero / Trish / Wesker
    Mortal Kombat 9 - Ermac
  • jason87jason87 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    Jason wouldn't ex chickenwing beat both the reflect and the U2?

    You aren't trying to do reflect, you're doing a HP SOUL THROW. Secondly, it crosses up on the first active wakeup frames and messes up their inputs. Meaning unless he's psychic, if he was on player 2 side he would have to do a 2149 motion instead of a 2147. It is essentially IMPOSSIBLE to chicken wing out. They'd fail 9/10 times. If they did know bout the setup, they'd prolly just hold forward. If they tried to flame kick out however, HP ST will make sure you're out of reach but the orbs would hit Fei letting you land. The second orb would then hit them giving you PLENTY of time to react and ST. Roughly 350+ dmg counting the throw or sweep guaranteed every time? I'd take that over u1.
  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 435Registered
    I don't know, with the large buffer and reversal window in this game it might be easy for a fei player to just guess a direction for chicken wing and then just block the opposite way, so if he guesses right he gets the chicken wing, he guesses wrong, he still can block it. I think it's worth testing in the lab. Since I still have super and you use the setup a lot more than me I bet you could record it and try seeing if you can do that with Fei.
  • jason87jason87 Joined: Posts: 385Registered
    @risingchurch
    Usually, they wouldn't know to throw out those specific reversals. Secondly, they have to time it pretty well to get the situation you bring up though i will concede that people that randomly mash out do at times block my setup out of sheer ignorance. If they're good, they're usually just going to block and see or ex flame kick.

    I've already tested against players with half circle/quarter circle motion. Usually their inputs get messed up and they eat the orbs and a strong spiral combo.
  • VecayseVecayse SoonKyu Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Well as you said once people know about that set up, they'll learn to deal with it. Does a reversal ex chickenwing or anything similar never auto correct? And against a good player that set up will only work like once.

    But still I agree with using U2 in the match up, simply because when you have it at neutral he has to respect your space a lot more.
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