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"Time to get serious!" Hakan Match-up Thread

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  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    SETH

    Preferred Ultra: Ultra 2
    Slide Wakeup: Beat by Shoryuken and EX Hyakuretsukyaku
    Crossup j.hk: whiff mk
    Main Points: Aggressive wakeup game, don't be full screen but you don't want to be close, look for slide openings

    Play defensively while standing and have an aggressive wakeup game. The good news is you don't have to do much to win this battle. An EX slide under a sonic boom with an uncrouchable dive on wakeup takes 1/2 his life. You only a couple combos to win. Don't let him get in on you.


    WAKEUP GAME:

    Slide Wakeup:
    Not a good move to use. Shoryuken and EX Legs will beat it. THere are better moves to use than this.

    Crossup j.hk:
    I like using this move against Seth. Shoryukens whiff and everything else counterhits. The only thing that he can use is EX Legs, which you can block after the j.hk. You can HP slide on reaction to catch a back teleport. Right when you see the teleport, HP Slide. Work on your reaction time to know when to c.mk (against connected j.hk), slide (against teleport), or wait for him to land after a whiffed Shoryuken (tip in WHAT TO PRACTICE Section). Not many Seth players will EX Legs on wakeup.

    You can also just bait SRKs and do the normal meaty normals/360P/DDT setups on Seth's wakeup if you don't like the Crossup j.hk setup. Getting lk oil into block can setup a rocket in the future.

    Uncrouchable Oil Dive:
    He can shoryuken reversal or teleport out. Seth is a basic wakeup character to basic oil setups work.


    WHEN TO OIL UP:


    If he Has Ultra 1, don't oil up on back throws and use mk on forward throws. It's risky oiling up full screen when he has Ultra so try to bait it out when he has it. Keep an eye on his Ultra meter if he uses U1. Otherwise, standing oiling up rules apply.


    GENERAL STRATEGY:

    The first thing he'll start to do is getting into his sonic boom routine and looking to catch you off guard with a lp boom and wall jump into j.hk. You don't want to be full screen, but you want to be close. Don't let him get all the way full screen. Inch forward a little bit so you still can block the sonic booms. The reason is that if you aren't 100% full screen, you can block the lp sonic boom and still have time to s.hp the j.hk. You can also trade blood for oil and ex slide to catch the 2nd sonic boom. Again, you can't be all way full screen and catch him so inch forward.

    You don't want to be close either because his jumping down.mks are very hard to get AA or an airthrow. Stay between halfscreen and less than full screen. While in this area, use standing hp when he tries to get in with jumps and look for opportunities to slide in. Also when you're in that area, you can be reached by seth's far HP. When oiled, FA DNC fwd.hk then go for an uncrouchable dive.

    Punish every lightnings legs with a slide combo or oiled rocket.

    If he ever gets close, it's a guessing game. Block his low pokes and be ready to crouch tech. He can use his command throw so be on the lookout after a while if all you're doing is blocking and teching.

    In this matchup, you're just hoping to find a couple combos and get the win before he gets you stunned. Don't be afraid to look for a slide opening, just know the certain spots where you can hit him near the last frames of the slide.


    WHAT TO PRACTICE:

    Turn Random block on and do slide, whiff mk, crossup j.hk. If he blocks the j.hk, do nothing. If he doesn't block, get a 4 hit slide combo with c.mk.
    Be able to block the lp sonic boom and activate U2 from within full screen
    practice staying within that range I explained in matches against a friend playing Seth
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    T.HAWK

    Preferred Ultra: Ultra 1
    Slide Wakeup: Beat by EX Tomahawk Buster and EX Typhoon, Free if no Meter
    Crossup j.hk: whiff mp, beat by tomahawk. Use c.mp
    Main Points: Make Hawk whiff tomahawk and be ready to punish with slide, you should punish every blocked special, keep him in wakeup for a long period

    Some great tips were on the matchup thread by tataki so I wanted to start by saying thank you for saving me time. I haven't had too much trouble with Hawks online. The main problem though is after you knock him down, what do you do besides oil up and back out? I think these wakeup options will help your game against Hawk a lot.

    WAKEUP GAME:

    Slide Wakeup:

    Use if Hawk doesn't have any meter, otherwise it's easily punishable. It's not really needed in this matchup, but it's something to mix it up a bit.

    Post-slide j.hk:

    This is a setup Mordie-Kai found against Sagat that can be used against Hawk. Whiff a c.mp after a slide followup and use an early j.hk. All tomahawks will whiff and normal condors will be counterhit while staying on the ground. EX Condor will be counterhit but it will be an air reset. Don't try to combo into c.mk for the same reasons why you don't against Sagat.

    Uncrouchable oil dives:

    I like using Dives in this matchup even though it's beat by EX Tomahawk Buster. It catches all Condors, normal Tomahawks, Typhoons, jumps, and crouches obviously (pretty damn good). Hawk is a basic wakeup character so basic setups apply.

    Post-Dive Wakeup:

    Dives are a great tool to use against T.Hawk so I should probably throw in a couple post-dive wakeup moves you can use

    Unoiled dash forward -> dash back -> j.hk: all tomahawks whiff, all condors are counterhit
    lk oil -> j.hk: all tomahawks whiff, all condors are counterhit


    WHEN TO OIL UP:


    Do not oil up on when he's in the air, he can react with dive. On the ground though he can't reach you in time from half screen away. Basic oiling up openings apply.


    GENERAL STRATEGY:


    Do not jump at him at all. He can s.hk and s.hp you as AA, and if you kick him with an early j.mk he can spd you after you land.

    While both standing and doing footsies, use s.hp, un-oiled f+hp, c.hp (beats his s.hp clean), oiled f+hk, focus attack (if he jumps cancel the focus into backdash immediately), neutral jumping normals (depending the angle his coming and if he activates dive).

    How to punish a blocked move:
    Condor spire: Rocket/U1

    Condor dive: oil dive/Super

    Tomahawk: a slide combo (remember sometimes a HP/EX version will crossup when falling down)

    If Hawk's moves whiff, jump or try to punish depending or the situation and if you are oiled or not.

    If he did punish your short oil with a dive, be aware that you get the oiled wake up game, which is great against T.Hawk's mix-ups.


    WHAT TO PRACTICE:


    The post-slide early j.hk setup whiffing c.mp
    post-dive setups
    oil dive after a blocked condor dive but be ready to jump/backdash if the dive whiffs
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    VEGA

    Preferred Ultra: Ultra 1
    Slide Wakeup: Free
    Crossup j.hk: whiff s.lp
    Main points: Aggressive wakeup game, know how to handle his special moves, practice your timing

    You probably haven't played a lot of Vega players. Because of this, you might not know how to handle him properly. The standard wakeup game applies. I'll go into detail about how to handle his special moves. Also, your timing needs to be really good if you want to punish those special moves. I prefer Ultra 1 in this matchup because you can other tools to stop his Flying Barcelona or Sky High Claw. Plus, Vega can easily bait it out. U1 is also a great tool to use in mind games. Every time Vega is close he will want to use a special just to get out.


    WAKEUP GAME:

    Slide Wakeup:

    I had to do it about 5 times for each move to believe it, but slide wakeup is free! Even off of EX rocket -> dash -> slide I couldn't get off a Scarlet Terror or Flying Barcelona Attack. Vega can however use the Back Slash so be ready to hit him when he recovers. Do not attempt if he has U2

    whiff s.lp -> j.hk:

    whiffing mp leave you open for Flying Barcelona and you air reset Scarlet Terror. When you whiff s.lp, it counterhits all special moves and leaves them on the ground for a full 4-hit slide combo. Again, he can Back Slash out. Beats U1 but it will lose to U2. Do not attempt if he has U2.

    Uncrouchable Oil Dive:
    Vega is a basic wakeup character so basic setups apply, but Slide wakeup and j.hk are just too good to ignore.

    I would use the j.hk wakeup move because Vega will want to Reversal when you're jumping into him. After he know he can't use anything, then go to slide. If he tries the short backflip, punish with a well timed f+MP into slide+body press. If he does the long backflip, punish with a well timed HP slide. If he has U2, just try to bait it out then go back to aggressive wakeup.


    WHEN TO OIL UP:


    Forward Throw - HK Oil is safe if no U1 or U2
    Back Throw - LK oil is safe if no U1 or U2
    Full Screen - If he's holding down, don't oil


    GENERAL STRATEGY:

    Don't try to punish his Rolling Crystal Flash, you can't. He might try to poke you after the roll so just back out or if you're feeling lucky try using Focus Attack and hope he won't use Scarlet Terror.

    Vega's Specials and how to punish after block:

    Scarlet Terror:
    You can c.mk into slide combo. Practice this by blocking lk Scarlet Terror in training mode.

    Sky High Claw:
    You ever see Vega jumping to the wall, block but be sure to stand. You'll have enough time to CC if it's Flying Barcelona. You want to block it because it's easily punishable by a HP slide, an oil dive, or even Super (Not EX).

    Flying Barcelona:

    Coward Crouch is so useful against this move. After practicing it, you can CC the attack, get up, and have enough time to punish with a c.mk slide combo or if you are oiled you can rocket. You can also use U1.

    One thing that's really annoying with Vega is his down+fwd.HK which cannot be punished. If he is within 1/2 screen and standing, this is his go-to move. You either have to guess tech or block a special. Focus attack will help a lot in this matchup and this move. His only Focus breaker is Scarlet Terror and he needs to be pretty close for that to hit. If he's about 1/2 screen away, use focus attacks. Once he gets about within starting distance, it can be risky.

    It's rare, but if he ever jumps in on you and you're unoiled, just FA the attack, release the FA, then Backdash out. If you're oiled, parry it. Your AA moves like s.hp and fwd.mp aren't that great against his j.hk and j.hp. You could also use j.mp or airthrow.


    WHAT TO PRACTICE:
    whiff s.lp -> j.hk
    punishing Back Slash
    CC under Flying Barcelona and punishing
    c.mk punish a blocked lk Scarlet Terror
    Focus attack reaction and parrying
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    YANG

    Will be made in the future
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    YUN

    Preferred Ultra: Ultra 2
    Slide Wakeup: Useless
    Crossup j.hk: VERY specific, you might whiff, and even if you don't it's still not safe
    Main Points: Know how to counter his moves, keep in mind what his go to move is, bait out that reversal and punish hard, STAY OILED

    The dreaded Yun match. It's actually not that bad if you know how to handle his various moves on block. The good thing about this matchup is that you can afford to make some mistakes while Yun really can't. Keep your cool and don't get frustrated with his dive kicks, they can be stopped.

    WAKEUP GAME

    Slide Wakeup:
    Useless, don't bother

    Crossup j.hk
    Weird wakeup + small build = not consistent enough to rely on. I wouldn't bother with this.

    Oil dives
    Can't be uncrouchable oil dived

    So.... what do we do?! WE CANT DO ANYTHING OH NOOOOOO... ok I'm calm now.... what's wrong with standard oiling up? Oil is a huge advantage against yun, why not add on to the oil? It's safe if he tries to reversal. You can actually do a slide followup, oil up, and backdash and he will whiff any DP. Feel free to use the K followup as well.

    Well, what if we wanna put some pressure on him? Whiff standing lp and neutral jump hk. Block when you land in case he does a reversal DP then continue the block string with fwd+lk. If he lk, mk, or hk reversals, it will be blocked. With MK and HK, he will land behind you. EX WILL HIT YOU. If he uses EX, bait it out next time by neutral jumping with NO j.hk, you can block the EX then.

    If you're oiled, you can neutral j.hk then fwd+lk and still be in range for a throw. If he blocks the fwd+lk, it will be a 0 frame advantage so this is another opportunity to bait or go for rocket.

    WHEN TO OIL UP

    Forward Throw: HK safe
    Back Throw: not safe
    Full Screen: completely full screen, his EX/HP Zesshou hohou won't reach. Try to bait it out, but he can get you on reaction with HP if you're not full screen.

    GENERAL STRATEGY

    Full Screen:
    Be careful oiling up, but try to bait out a HP charge. Punish with rocket or pokes into slide. If he starts using palm to build meter, just oil up and EX slide, which will go right through palm. This is a good place to be because you can get oil and if he starts to build meter you can easily punish.

    Mid Screen:
    s.HP / f.MP / j.MP / j.throw are all good normals to stop him from jumping into you. To get a good feel, practice using each one when playing online or casually against a Yun. Only through practice will you know which one to use at certain points.

    Specials:

    Zesshou Hohou (down to foward punch): Rocket non-ex versions. Be ready for mixups if EX.

    Shoulder Charge: 9/10 times, this will be a LP. You actually cannot punish a lp shoulder charge on block. for MP, HP, and EX, you can punish with a lp combo into slide. The EX is tight so practice that. I usually just punish with c.lp into slide. The reason is that if it's a lp Shoulder Charge, it sets me up to counter what Yun will do.

    After a blocked Shoulder Charge, Yun has some basic options, here's what will happen:

    Jump Up Dive kick - my c.lp whiffs, I instantly see the jump and hit fwd.lp, causing an air reset. I can dash forward to Throw/Bait or bashdash and you're back in mid screen (full if oiled)
    Another Shoulder Charge - my c.lp counterhits
    Zesshou Hohou - My c.lp counterhits
    up-kicks - My c.lp crouches under it, all of them whiff

    He could delay a c.mk so be prepared. Odds are he will do one of these things though.

    Up-kicks: Just be quick with your punish when you block a LK up-kick. It's only +13 so be on top of it.

    Command Grab: Command grabs are 10/7/7/5 frames on start up. So make sure to throw out a 360p every so often during the block strings when u sense it coming.

    Dive Kick:

    If the dive kick is deep or you blocked the dive kick crouching, block. Make sure you block the dive kick standing for possible high dive block. My frame of reference is if it hits around head level, i go for the rocket.

    double dives: interrupt them with f.lp (best), s.mp, or crouch tech lp+lk+c.mp (may not work on 2 lk dives).

    If they space the divekick to hit at your feet, that gives you room to escape the situation entirely with up-back or dash-back.

    You want to frustrate Yun by disrupting his jump in dive kick game. Then maybe he'll try to get desperate with shoulder charges and Zesshou. Oil up with you can. Oil is key in this matchup. With Air resets, don't be afraid to try and sneak in a lk oil. You are able to make a few mistakes, he isn't. Even if he does punish the oil, you can enough to get out of his wakeup game.

    WHAT TO PRACTICE:

    Shoulder charge punishes and followups.
    AA dive kicks, when to use which normal
    The neutral jump hk technique.
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    ZANGIEF

    Preferred Ultra: Ultra 2
    Slide Wakeup: Not Free
    Crossup j.hk: whiff c.mp
    Main Points: Get oiled, use your pokes to keep him out, keep your distance, punish his Banishing Flat

    I like to use Ultra 2 just to get rid of his jumpin wakeup game, which is deadly against Hakan. Get oiled whenever you have the chance. With oil, standing HP becomes very deadly and great at keeping Gief out. You should punish every blocked banishing flag and watch for the whiff.

    WAKEUP GAME:


    Slide Wakeup:
    Can be beat by EX Piledriver, EX Banishing Flat, Quick Double Lariat, Super, and Ultra. Not that great of a move to use if he's really good at reversal Quick Double Lariat or has meter.

    Crossup j.hk:

    The problem with using mp is that Gief's Lariat will still trade with you and knock you down. whiff a c.mp then do an early j.hk. This will counterhit both of his lariats but HP/EX Banishing Flat will whiff. Odds are he will be tempted to do a lariat when you're jumping in so this a good move to use.

    Uncrouchable Oil Dive:

    These are really good against Zangief. It grabs all Banishing Flats and all Lariats. Here are some setups:

    Oiled fwd.hk -> backdash -> HK Dive
    c.hk -> forward dash -> HK Dive
    HP Rocket -> dash forward -> Delayed HK Dive

    WHEN TO OIL UP:

    Forward Throw: HK Safe
    Back Throw: LK Safe
    Full Screen: LK Safe

    GENERAL STRATEGY:


    Your pokes are for the most part, better than Gief's. Use his standing HP as your main poke, as it breaks focus and is an all around great poke. Mix it in with standing MP, c.MP, and f.LP. If you want to close the distance, then use f.MP/c.HP/f.HK.

    If Gief is using any version of his Lariat from a distance, you can punish with f.HK/f.MP(being oiled up will increase the distance and grant knockdown on the f.HK), slide(any version will do, but preferably the HP version) or 360K. Slide and 360K are the best punishes for Lariat, since it opens up the Hakan wakeup game. If you block a Green-hand of any type, punish with 360P or c.MK into slide.

    Don't let him get in on you. Use standing HP if he tries to jump in. Also, a FA DNC forward standing HP will usually catch Zangief. When Gief can't jump in, he'll start using BF to get close. Know the ranges and at what distances it will whiff in front of you for a Piledriver.

    Play defensively and punish his BFs. Jumping in on Gief is pretty much worthless so I wouldn't even try it. At times you'll be pushed in a corner, just don't panic and try to slide out. Use those normals to take control.

    WHAT TO PRACTICE:

    whiff c.mp -> j.hk
    Blocking Green-hand and punishing with c.mk
    Using standing HP as AA and for FADNC
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    I wanted to post this since this is the end.

    Thanks everyone for helping me out in this long process. I gotta say, doing this has really helped my knowledge of various matchups and I truly hope that it has been helpful for everyone that reads it. I really think that if you are having trouble with a certain matchup, practice the suggested techniques and really read the information posted will help you a lot. I'm a strong believer that there is no such thing as a bad matchup, just an underprepared matchup (and maybe some matchups you have to think harder).

    Big thank you goes out to Liquigen for helping write a few guides. I really appreciate the help. Also thank you to everyone who posted anything in the matchup thread or in the discussion thread. Too many names to list.

    I'm thinking about just opening this thread up for conversation so if there are any additions you can post here and I can add it. I'm also hoping for a Sticky on this thread so it doesn't get buried. Do we even have Mods in here anymore?
  • OmegablackmageOmegablackmage Joined: Posts: 126Registered
    Question about thawk, you suggest using u2 against gief because of his wakeup vortex. Doesn't thawk have something similar with the body splash? Do you have a reason for still suggesting u1 here?
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    My general idea when picking between U1 and U2 is pick U2 if it totally shuts down a big part of your opponent's game. U2 shuts down Giefs wakeup jumpin stuff. The reason why I prefer U1 in the THawk matchup is because his wakeup vortex is more punishable with a U1 than Gief's.

    But again, that's just my opinion on the ultra. Using U1 against Gief isn't a bad call and using U2 against Thawk isn't bad if he's jumping in on you a lot on wakeup.
  • Mordie-KaiMordie-Kai Joined: Posts: 758Registered
    I use U2 on T Hawk at the recommendation of Ultra David, largely because it will beat up Hawk's cross-up games.
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    I'll try using u2 in the matchup sometime.
  • Mordie-KaiMordie-Kai Joined: Posts: 758Registered
    I'll try using u2 in the matchup sometime.
    Yeah, it's not like Hakan is short on offense against T.Hawk. By the way, what happened to the detailed matchup (don't post here) thread? I was going to look through it, and it's missing :P.

    [edit]Oh, never mind. It just doesn't have (Don't post here) written in the title anymore. That's how I used to find it. ha ha
  • Tofu WarriorTofu Warrior Today is close Joined: Posts: 1,286Registered
    I suppose I can get the ball rolling on the Yang match up. Yang's game isn't very developed yet, so I can only give early impressions of the match up.

    I played Eric Hai's Yang, who some of you may know is one of East Coast Canada's top players, and he's already really good with him. Anyway, this match up is very fun and it feels very even so far. Yang has a lot of bullshit on offense; his pressure is safe, gives good frame advantage and builds a ludicrous amount of meter. It's common to see at least one super every round, sometimes even two if he's set on farming meter. A powerful pressure string with Yang is to go for two Mantis Slashes, FADC, close forward, jump cancel j. RH, then go for a cross up dive kick. The close forward beats OS crouch techs because the Mantis Slashes are like +6 on block. Close forward also juggles into Ultra 1. I wouldn't recommend trying to focus absorb cr. MK, because Mantis Slash will tag you every time, even if you just tap focus. Maybe FADNC cr. jab is fast enough, but I'm not sure.

    So what makes this match up even? Yang has a really hard time getting in and Hakan has an easy time keeping him out. I realize now I didn't use F+LP as an anti-air at all, I think that would have been really helpful. St. HP is good against him with proper spacing. However, I found the best anti-air to be Slide. You can easily tag dive kicks with Slides on reaction. This is where things get nasty for Yang. Whiff st. MP, j. RH works on Yang. This set up will always make his LK and EX Rolling Kicks whiff. I haven't tested this too thoroughly, but I found that j. RH option select cr. MK beat all of Yang's options on wake up. If he tries to EX Teleport past you, your cr. MK will tag him. If he tries to back dash, you will cr. MK his recovery frames and go into another knockdown. He has to block, because he can't afford to take much damage with his low vitality.

    This post is already getting pretty long, so I'll stop here. I hope this was insightful for you guys.
    ** Avatar by savaii64 **
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 984Registered
    Blanka can Electrity bevore the meety Slide hit; Bodypress Dash Slides will get beaten by it if there is a other setup please post it ^^

    i tryed it out with MP instead of dash that seems to be pretty descent
    How to play Zangief. A Zangief Tutorial:
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189468
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 984Registered
    im working on this for a while but its not even finished yet i want to insert all i know or read here into it but it takes to much time for me alone maybe someone will help?

    http://rapidshare.com/files/444241570/hakan.xls
    How to play Zangief. A Zangief Tutorial:
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189468
  • Samurai DrewSamurai Drew Joined: Posts: 1,263Registered
    I'm not liking wakeup against fei long anymore, especially if he can just use chicken wing, and I always use ultra 1 in that match up. It puts you in a shitty position. I tried using coward crouch if the HK whiffed but thats really risky. It really takes away some confidence if you're playing a good fei who uses that now and then on his wakeup.
    www.youtube.com/sudafreekan - Hakan Technician #1
  • OmegablackmageOmegablackmage Joined: Posts: 126Registered
    Seems like after whiffing a c.mp after slide follow up on sagat, no matter how i time the j.hk i get tagged by a reversal ultra 1. Anyone else confirm this?

    Does a crouch ppp lariat (non reversal timing) beat the early j.hk setup on zangief? I've yet to record a setup that beat all four lariats (crouch/reversal ppp/kkk versions).

    When setting a boxer computer to 'crouch' and 'auto block' I cannot land a j.hk deep enough to get the uncrouchable dive. I either j.hk too late and i completely whiff him landing on the other side, I land it as a cross-up, but the dive whiffs (the hk landed too high up), or i do the hk very early and it lands as a regular hit but the dive is still too late. Anyone know whats going on here?

    After a slide on fei-long, it looks like any flame kick will beat a safe slide. How did you get it so that the flame kicks where whiffing?
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Wakeup slide against Blanka is a little different. You have to delay the slide after the dash forward a split second. What I usually do is stand there after a dash for a split second, then slide.

    I don't have my xbox right now the test out Sagat's U1, but I believe you. Maybe when he has ultra, just oil up and reset/rocket. Does c.mp -> empty forward jump still get hit? I'll get my xbox back in a couple days.


    Liquigen, still working on Sakura?
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 984Registered
    Blanka/Dalsim setups are just c.MP instead of Dash AND f+LK after HP/EX-SPD works for all chars althou blanka and Dalsim
    How to play Zangief. A Zangief Tutorial:
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189468
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Blanka has the same wakeup properties as sim? Alright I'll try that out. My friend mains Blanka so I'll use that. I trust you so I'll change the guide.

    I really need to start using that F+lk after hp/ex spd.
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 984Registered
    you dont need to trust me take the fakts ;)

    c.mp =21frames and you can not buffer the slide as good as in a dash(20frames) that means it will be at least 1frame later^^
    and thats do it :)

    besides that if you are insted lets test out f+LK instead of MP i assume its much better fit since it moves a BIT forward (oiled) and so you can crossup with it more easy (real crossup hits) but it had the same startup frames:)

    besides that i realy hope f+LK will get a 3framer if so hakan has one of the EASY's combos you can think off

    Jumpin-->MP-->F+LK XX HP-Slide

    i tested it out its easy to hitconfirm
    How to play Zangief. A Zangief Tutorial:
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189468
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Yea that would be amazing. Crossup j.hk into pokes and the mixup options will be glorious. Once AE comes out for xbox and 3s on xbla, I'll be glued to the tv.

    I'll abuse c.mp next time I get together with my blanka friend. I'll also test fwd+lk.

    I got second in a tourney last night, losing twice to my friend who plays Chun Li. I can't even describe how key oil is in this matchup. I'm seriously considering just oiling up after every knockdown then I was reading that you can backdash after a followup into j.mk and it stuffs EX SBK (I assume unoiled). Confirmed? If so, I wanna add that. Sorry, I would check but I loaned my xbox for a couple days.
  • reaper2507reaper2507 Joined: Posts: 984Registered
    there are a coupe of good things vs chun i hafe to offer

    EX.SPD -->Dash --> j,HK will stuff EX-Spinningbirdkicks
    Blocked Spinningbirdkicks are punished hard with F+MP xx HP-Slide
    After slide +BB you can walk a bit backward and perform a savejump on her (all reversals gett stuffed ) thre was a video of it on eventhubs a short time agoo
    Slide can punish instand overhead backward jump
    DDT-Setups dont work as well;
    C.HK is realy good in this matchup and cous jumpins to wiff
    since she does not hafe a AA except from EX-Spinningbirdkick she abuse here c.HK just emptjump often to remove that threat and change it into a advantage

    if you want download my excel i insert all your information in it too and use it to make sidenotes after fights like"
    Ryus Tatsu on wakeup got beaten by Backdash into SPD^^
    How to play Zangief. A Zangief Tutorial:
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=189468
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    EX.SPD -->Dash --> j,HK will stuff EX-Spinningbirdkicks

    WHAT?!?!?!? I'm going to abuse the hell out of this.
    C.HK is realy good in this matchup and cous jumpins to wiff

    This is something I'm going to experiment with against my friend. I'll get back to you with my results.


    Stuffing EX SBK on wakeup:
    HP.SPD -> whiff mk -> j.mk
    EX.SPD -> dash -> j.hk (I assume unoiled?)
    slide followup -> backdash -> j.mk (unoiled only?)
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    I can't get these two things to work:

    EX.SPD -> dash -> j.hk
    slide followup -> backdash -> j.mk

    While checking out AA stuff, I found that fwd+mp is a great weapon against Chun li's jumpin hp hp, which is pretty much her only jumpin attack. It also does well against the j.kicks. Wait until chun reaches the top point of her jump then fwd+mp. I'm surprised how well it works against j.hphp.
  • Mordie-KaiMordie-Kai Joined: Posts: 758Registered
    So it might be useful to have some SS dives in here but for particular opponents, e.g. Zangief, Adon, Hawk, Vega and Sagat require a slightly later lk dive after the slide/press compared to Ken and Ryu.
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Yea I'll have to go back and look at various dive setups for each character.... I'm just having waaaay too much fun playing MVC3. lol sorry. I'm still here though.

    And I'll probably end up doing the Sakura guide sometime too.
  • Mordie-KaiMordie-Kai Joined: Posts: 758Registered
    Yea I'll have to go back and look at various dive setups for each character.... I'm just having waaaay too much fun playing MVC3...
    I'll put something together, so you have at least a couple of good dive set ups for each character. As far as MVC3, I don't blame ya'! I am looking forward to getting it myself. I'll get it in a couple of weeks maybe.

    [edit]By the way, I got mp rocket, jump, mk dive to work on Ken and Ryu. So never mind about that one. It works on almost everyone, so that's a really good one.
  • ChronChron Joined: Posts: 168Registered
    Whenever you put something together, just post it here. My posting has gone down but I still read this and check it daily.
  • Mordie-KaiMordie-Kai Joined: Posts: 758Registered
    So I thought I'd just suggest a few SS dive tips for irregular wake-up characters.

    For Zangief, T.Hawk, Guile, Sagat, Adon and Vega, slide/press, c.mp/buffer 360 into back walk, lk dive works as a mix-up, although I wouldn't recommend it for Vega, for obvious reasons.

    For Chun-Li and Ibuki, slide/press, s.mp/buffer 360 into back walk, lk dive works well, as they wake up faster.

    If you do typical SS dive set ups for these characters, they are able to jump out of them, unfortunately. Chun-Li and Ibuki require earlier timing, too, so that ruins easy mp rocket, forward jump, mk dive for them, sadly.

    Against Sagat in the oil trap, instead of oily f.hk, knock-down, back dash, walk forward, lk dive, use walk back, mk dive. I also recommend against these characters, when oily, instead of oily slide/press, back dash, walk forward mk dive, use walk back, hk dive. Do it a couple frames quicker for Chun and Ibuki and slower for Gief, Hawk and Vega.

    Lastly, a nice technique against Chun Li is slide/press s.lp, neutral jump hk. It's safe against EX bird kick!
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