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SSF4 AE T.Hawk Match-up Thread

suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
I've taken the liberty to start another match up thread. However, this time around this will have summaries against all fighters in the beginning of the thread to help keep it organized and concise.

I will go through the current match up thread to pull out any useful data. I will not accept any blind setups when you're in frame disadvantage like whiffed CD into SPD.

All inputs will be accepted but please make sure to have thoroughly tested it.
No discussions of how T. Hawk ranks in the Tier list. There are plenty of discussions for that.

This thread is only for match ups!

Also check out Mr. SNK's introduction to this E. Honda match-up thread. It has some very useful general info.
Super E.Honda Match-Up Thread. (Before the war)

[note: I will start with place holders for organization purposes and will slowly fill this out over time. Be PATIENT!]

Abel
"Watch the fuck out, he has anti air now. Always jump in crossup splash on oki and OS a 360 on whiff to punish reversal roll. Abel's only way to deal with crossups right now is to either EX CoD, Roll, or block. He can't straight beat it. (Feels like the old ST loop without the j.lp) If he activates U2, immediately do a high arc hawk dive. You'll beat him, or fly right over him." - Heroic_Legacy

Adon
TBD

Akuma
"Just don't EVER CD him when he has super or Ultra. EVER." - danmishima

"1) EX Tomahawk will beat cross up tatsu after a knockdown if you do it as a reversal but do the unatural thing of doing it in the direction he just came from and let it auto correct. If you try to reversal late on the side he is landing EX DP gets stuffed - strange but true. Have another bar and you can EX dive for a nice 230 damage (take what you can vs him really).

2) EX command grab seems to kill his cross up tatsu too. The tatsu vanishes into the void of EX and you grab him for a cool 200 damage.

3) U2 on wake up kills meaty demon flip, but as an auto correct option it whiffs as Akuma is too low by the time it comes out. I think U2 has its place in this match as with meter and Ultra his mix up game becomes much more limited IMO - meaty demon = U2, cross up tatsu = ex auto correct Tomahawk or SPD, Demon to grab or palm = U2. He can try and safe jump you and then you need to ride out the pressure and avoid the sweep or DP Option select, but ir seems his main option = less guessing games. " - TAMANAPANTS

Cross-up CD will reach Akuma if he decides to teleport backwords.

Balrog
"Rog can straight dash a wiffed rh but with footsies vs all charge chars you need to pay attention and watch for them having charge or not. You want to s.rh when they don't have charge and block and wait or just inch forward when they do." - bp amoco

Blanka
Spam cr.lp to stuff horizontal roll at medium/long range. Well-timed st.MP also beats Blanka ball.

"ST mp vs Cr mp: Cr always for counting med range and long range balls, block or footsy/poke with St Mp for close balls and hops. The MK timing does take some getting used to, but even trades are in your favor. Usually blocking the Ultra is better, but you can punish on reaction more when you get better at telling the two apart. Actually I've found after I proved I could consistantly punish it that my friend was almost always throwing out AA versions from that point on. I think it will come to be people will find U2 useless against Hawk." - Sakura.Densetsu
FADC rainbow roll with choice of punishment.

"You can punish Blankas U1 on block by dashing forward as he bounces away and 360 or 720 him." - Stricnine

"T. Hawk's crouching jab will beat out Blanka's electricity every time." - Gimpt

"On reaction, you can 360 him out of that stupid DF+FP slide" - danmishima

"Get a life lead on blanka and make him come to you really is the best way to fight him. Hes so good at running away its so fucking frustrating." - gridman

"There's almost zero reason to use CD against Blanka. Hell, you shouldn't even really be jumping towards him. Blanka's df.HP works as an AA provided the opponent does an attack that can be low profiled under, and it was the same way in SF4. He's the last character you want to give free damage against with Hawk." - Dullyanna

"but one thing he did, which was smart play, was baiting ball with jump back splash (worth testing what jump back elbow would be like?). The splash stays active for ages and also changes your hitbox to stop ball hitting your legs. It traded a few times or won clean on the Blankas recovery. When it was clean he would would combo into c.lp to mp strings or straight s.mp xx lp Tomahawk. The basic strategy was edge forward spamming c.lp often and then when he got a few steps forward o about 2/3 to mid screen, he would then jump back splash. The match was pretty lame to watch, but it basically bought it down to an extremely basic game of more a 50/50 than anything else. Advantage still to Blanka for sure when watching this match, but takes options away instead of chasing him down all match and more about a battle of wills and patience." - TAMANAPANTS

C. Viper
"The only thing that you have to afraid is that he has thunder knuckle as an anti air.
so becarefull with Dives and when you jump in.
Viper players must afraid this match because one mistake and the health bar gone.
The only thing with Viper is that she is pretty much safe in almost every move and after knock downs she has the ability to perform easy mind cross up traps.
So becarefull after a knock down.
The good thing is that you can focus her burning kick and seismic hammer so you can approach with dashing and ofcourse after a good focus on burning kick you can SPD her to continue your game or a combo etc.
The other thing that you must see is her easy way to fly away from you.
Viper can easily go away because of the super jumps and burning kicks while she can attack,defence and short her range of her jump.
You must watch her all the time.
It's not the easiest match but you have to be patient also.
In case that jump in to you don't hesitate DP her.You have an anti air shoryuken for her jump ins.But do it when she is up to the air and not very close to you because with a burning kick may stop you and punish you." - Tira

Cammy
"The main thing here is definitely let her come to you, any attempts to jump in or Dive are gonna be stuffed by cannon spike, and even cross ups are a rough situation, she beats splash clean. It feels like a repeat of cheesing Gief in vanilla during challenge modes, but you just need to spam the living crap out of Cr LP to stop her. Getting a 360 or DP off after a blocked spiral arrow was a complete crapshoot since you can be counting on Cammy to spam Cannon Spike as soon as she recovers from it. You can punish a blocked Cannon Spike (only if she did it right in your face) with standing HK as she's coming down to the ground, which might help to teach the Cammy to not spam it since so many get in the habit of it being hard to punish.

Winning a match really just game down to standing in one spot and punish anything she tried to throw by spamming cr LP, and in the case blocking random Cannon Spikes, HK on her recovery. If you end up getting comboed I'd say go for the usual scrub-alicious tactic of mashing out DP/360. Feels retarded everytime I do it but beats missing that small frame gap and losing the chance to punish. Spire to build meter is risky because she could Spiral Arrow you on reaction." - Krandor311

"Don't forget neutral jumping from a safe distance to bait out whiffed cannon spike." - PumpkinBomber

"You can punish cammy's DP with dash up 360. Learn what ranges spiral arrow is safe from so you know if you can 360 punish. If you use U1 or have super, you can almost always punish close range spiral arrows with 720." - jmcrofts

"Reversal Ultra 2 catches blocked Cannon Spikes.
You can use cross-up Splash safely against Cammy after LP Typhoon. Take a very slight step forward, then do the Splash late, if timed right you'll be able to block Cannon Spike and punish. Have to be careful if she decided to go with Ultra 2 though (not sure why, but some do) because that will beat cross-up Splash." - Twin Rhapsody

"-MT(SPD) punishes spiral arrow and cannon spike (dash forward MT(SPD))." - BlueBlazer
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Comments

  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    Chun Li
    "If you can get that knockdown (like so many Hawk match-ups), she has to burn meter to get you off her. Swoop or dash back in, crouch block as she bust's her EX SBK reversal, then s.HK, or start the cross up attempt into tick/grab or low hit into Tomahawk Buster. Once she's out of bar, she'll start mashing or jumping to escape your set-ups.

    As for her cross-over HK move, you simply block the other way when you see it going over you, then she's gonna be looking to combo in c.LK xx whatever, or walk in and throw. If she/the player is trying to land stronger normals off it, that's your chance to start spinning or hitting EX TB. Hell, if you've got U1, she's pretty much ticking herself into it." - PointBreak91

    Cody
    "I'm not exactly sure what good cody players do themselves, but I got an idea of what kind zoning tools Cody can utilize to keep hawk out. He's got the charge rock throw, the fake rock throw, and his hk ruffian kick to keep hawk away, and do some damage from a distance. hk ruffian kick seems to stop all of hawk's air attacks, and my friend would bait a jump in by faking a rock throw (Cody ducks to pick up nothing, and he can cancel it VERY fast, though I don't know how long he can keep the fake animation going) then smack me with a hk ruffian kick. the key for me to get in was to use a mix of prediction and footsies.

    when I was across the screen, where the chance of punishing a rock throw was very low, my friend would toss them liberally, sometimes charging the rock to mess with my jumps. jump over them or focus-dash through them. things get harder when you start to get to mid range, because he starts to throw fake rocks, and will eventually throw a real rock if you keep guessing correctly on which is real and fake. he would fake a rock throw then smack me with a ruffian kick if I'd attempt to jump in. There's more though, if I attempt to focus dash at that range, he'll ruffain kick anyway and break through my armor. EX CS also seems to lose to hk ruffian clean (can someone confirm this?), and I believe ruffian kicks are safe on block (Edit: actually at max distance only), so he wasn't at big risk pulling them off (unless they whiff I think). I was pressured to simply rely on reading through the fake and real rocks, and play footsies. I eventually get my break and CD him or score knock down in some other manner, and things uasually go in my favor then. cody's good at close range, but hawk can handle him.

    he didn't use bad spray, and his use of ex zonk knuckle was limited, so not much info on those moves. look out for them rocks and ruffian kicks; you can punish criminal upper depending on the range you are after blocking; SPD if your close and cr.hk is your far, (no worries, its safe even if you whiff with it) .Cody's link combos hurt, so beware." - blackgenma

    "Once you get in its over. All ruffian kicks are unsafe but can be made safe from max range (ie he hits with the tip) otherwise, you can spd if hes close or poke him back. CD over any rocks you can see coming, ex spire through rocks at mid range should work because the start up on all ruffian kicks isnt instant. At worst im assuming a trade. Safe jump him all day. You dont even need OS in this matchup. EX zonk knuckle is no good for getting out of pressure. Dont be predicitable once your in. Be careful of codys doing gimmicky shit like fadc'ing the zonk knuckle. seriously, downback all day against cody and tech throws and he cant do much to open up hawk." - gridman

    "quick things include Cody being able to punish condor dives with mk ruffian kick all the time, and even ultra 2 if properly timed (ouch). mk ruffian also beats condor spire on reaction according to them." - blackgenma

    Dan
    TBD

    Dee Jay
    "Sobat is unsafe as fuck on block and the EX version runs out of invulnerable frames way before it hits. Slide can be empty jumped and I'm pretty sure it's a free SPD even on tip block. If he has meter I'd go for MP/HP SPD and CD fairly close to him after knockdown. If I'm wrong just smack him for jumping away at tip block.. If Hawk gets within normal range he can play the footsie game with DJ well imho. Be careful crossing him up because EX Up Kick will probably beat out anything you do unless the timing is horribly screwed up.

    Edit: Also avoid using CD as much as possible, unless you've got a really good read on your opponent (You should be doing that in every single match anyway, but whatever). It loses for free to slide, Up Kicks, s.MP and j.LP at the very least." - Dullyanna

    "walk deejay to the corner just like you do guile. he doesn't want to be near you cause if he misses a crossup mk or knees it's free lp typhoon for you and time for your mixup to start. once you get deejay in the corner don't cross him up. you want to stand just outside his range and stuff everything he does with st.hp and cr.mk. His back is against the wall and he is going to want to get out so anti-air any attempts to jump you, cr.fierce/tomahawk should work nicely, and make sure to block low so the slide doesn't get you. condor dive is not your friend in this match and he can just fierce punch it/upkick it/or U2 it." - komradekraig * note concerning block strings: pro DJ's will be able to maintain continuous combos and block strings and could punish a whiff SPD with slide or sobat.

    Dhalsim
    "Patience. Patience, patience,patience! You will at first have to gradually edge your way towards him without taking damage from his long, low limbs. He should know that he can't just throw endless fireballs at you because of Condor Dive, but eventually, he'll blast one across, and that's your moment to swoop right in. If you're near to him when he throws it, you'll get a knock-down, if not, then you'll probably be landing next to him, so spin the stick to go straight into a LP 360, then Condor Spire over his fallen body to start another tick or combo attempt. This may be the only time you get to do this, as Dhalsim will often warp away upon wake up, so just hit him with a HP 360 next time you get in.

    He will continue to zone you multiple times with his far reaching HP, which if you're really lucky, you can sometimes LP Tomahawk Buster, or simply c.LP from max range, right at the tip of his fists. Try an EX Condor Spire to get in fast and trade hits, then immediately jump in and go for a 360 or a 720 when you land. Be very wary of his knee Anti Air, as it will stop you every time. Try jumping straight up to avoid limbs on the ground, then swooping straight back in, for either a knock-down or tick. If he blocks you, expect a hit, but any delay, then jump right back in over his outstretched limbs for a big spin, or try a LP Tomahawk Buster quick counter hit.
    Watch out for the randomly unleashed massive fireball Ultra, which he will try to warp in front of, behind you, thus trapping you into it. Jump straight up, and if he's moving towards you, or hitting low, you can swoop right over the Ultra to hit him safely. Be careful not to trade, as you'll fall right back into it, and get burned bad! As always, block is always an option...

    Selecting Ultra 1 is possibly better Vs this guy, as he tends to chip away at you quite badly and rapidly, taking off health and building your Ultra faster than you realise. Go all out to get in and land it for massive damage, but watch out for him warping (baiting a warp then swooping across to hit him is a valid tactic, especially online where some players throw this move out far too much).
    U2 could be used if the 'Sim you're fighting likes to do jump back HPs on you a lot, especially as a bizarre form of Meaty attack, but other than that, it could be quite hard to land it when you need it most." - PointBreak91

    Dudley
    "Hawk Dive is punishable only by ducking upper, thunderbolt, and Rolling Thunder. That's all we tested, but if I were to speculate (I think I'm allowed...) mk duck into Corkscrew might work. EX MGB will be blocked, or it will whiff because they did it too slow. Don't worry about that move. Just enjoy your 360 animation afterwards." - Heroic_Legacy

    E. Honda
    Spam cr.lp to stuff horizontal head-butt.

    "... it works really well if you walk cr. jab spam inching toward him...
    All his butt slams are free 360's...
    Well spaced St. MP's work well against his jump-ins. Use St. Mp (has to be a bit close but it can hit him if he is crouch blocking), Cr. mk, and St. Mk to poke him. Just remember to cr. jab when standing still (within footsie range) to shut down his headbutts and force him to jump at you. I was always throwing out normals in this match and mixing them up with cr. jabs to shut them down." - Pasky

    "Unfortunately Honda's autocorrect exHB punishes you for try to crossup splash." - PumpkinBomber

    "but one thing he did, which was smart play, was baiting ball with jump back splash (worth testing what jump back elbow would be like?). The splash stays active for ages and also changes your hitbox to stop ball hitting your legs. It traded a few times or won clean on the Blankas recovery. When it was clean he would would combo into c.lp to mp strings or straight s.mp xx lp Tomahawk. The basic strategy was edge forward spamming c.lp often and then when he got a few steps forward o about 2/3 to mid screen, he would then jump back splash. The match was pretty lame to watch, but it basically bought it down to an extremely basic game of more a 50/50 than anything else. Advantage still to Blanka for sure when watching this match, but takes options away instead of chasing him down all match and more about a battle of wills and patience." - TAMANAPANTS
  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    El Fuerte
    "Fuerte you have options for. FA if you expect slam, DP if you expect slide or his grab. Fuerte is actually a good matchup for T.Hawk as he gets stuffed for pretty much all his approaches by s.MP and s.HK, and if he does approach, the grab and 360 the slams and slides. You can s.HK all of his off the wall options too." - karterfreak

    Fei Long
    Good Fei Long players will get you to whiff SPDs and will punish you with Rekka Ken, much like the Zangief matchup. Be careful of his back-dashes after specials.

    Blocked/whiffed st.rh can be punished by Rekkas.

    "Ultra 1 for fei match. This takes away his overhead (f.mk) entirely because ultra 1 punishes it on hit and block any which way (read: none of the 360s can do this so ONLY ultra). If you can see a chicken wing coming, lp dp will either always trade or win cleanly. Fei needs to get you in the corner to actually be scary. If he hits you with rekkas and you tech, just block because after a rekka combo, feis will dash up and fp rekka incase you tech and try to do anything but block (it will hit backdashes and jumps but probably i think lose to invincible moves obviously, most people try to jump though after that rekka combo). Play solid, dont dive really ever, and after a jab 360, if you walk a step forward before jumping over with splash, it makes it REALLY ambigious on fei because of how he wakes up. Make him come to you, dont get cornered or dive, save meter for when you need to get out of the corner. Punish badly spaced rekkas with 360 (any) and dont use st.rh or fp that much, on whiff and block, fei can rekka them. Use low forward and stand forward to poke. " - gridman

    Gen
    TBD

    Gouken
    TBD

    Guile
    "Neutral j. fierce moves hawk's body over sonic booms pretty well and can stuff guile sometimes, a bit like honda's neutral j fierce (but definitely not as good). focus absorbing sonic booms is a mixed bag. the lp SB follow with jumping kick can hit your backdash if they space it correctly (of course, this would lose to ex spire) and your forward dash from the focus doesn't go far enough to pass under guile. hawk dive loses to flash kick and most jump ins will lose to his AA punch or air throw. Early j.jab can beat the air throw and you can cancel into dive for mixup grab, but you'll rarely end up in the correct spacing because you have to attack so early. After testing a bunch of these things I ended up sitting at fullscreen, absorbing SBs and then whiffing lp typhoon to build meter. ex. spire, i think, is your best tool in this matchup. his backfist punch beats a number of pokes and there will be roughly 25 to 30 sonic booms PER ROUND (yeah we started counting) against a hardcore zoner so I didn't see a lot of option to be advancing in the footsies game. Once you get in it's a bit different and you can beat flashkicks all day with crossup splash. but then if you mess up or give guile a chance to jab string, mp(?) xx SB he's suddenly out of your reach again. cr.HP can be pretty good at this distance. st. RH will beat a jump away and stuff some pokes but is just waiting to be crumpled by focus. so yeah... that's all i got so far on this. Also, i recognize not all guile's will play like this and that all the scrubby guiles online just do SB walk forward sweep, flash kick." - komradekraig

    I personally would not do a cross-over if I had Guile trapped in a corner. You limit his SBs if his spacing is not good. He then resorts to pokes, flashes and Ultras.

    "If Guile is following booms with backfist EX CD.spire should go through and knock him down." - PumpkinBomber

    "Guile, you have to walk forward and be VERY patient. Test them out, focus a SB and dash forward see what they do. If you can get into the range patiently, try focus, dash forward 360. Hawks dash isnt great, but it isnt like giefs. Also, find a distance you can empty jump 360 from. This is pretty huge against turtle players (turtle rog too, especially without a charge). Make them fear empty jump 360 or far jump rh, st.lk ex spire to get in close. If you're getting punished for focus dash forwarding, stop doing it. Play footsies. St.fp trades with booms so if you can get into that range, do it. Be careful of random ultra 2 / flash kicks when they get antsy. This ultra choice is entirely up to you, if they like to jump back in the corner or jump away, U2, otherwise u1." - gridman

    Ex-CS beats random Guile U2.

    "you need to pretend you are gief for this match--and by that i mean you need at least one ex bar to actually get in. And even then, because EX spire isn't the quickest, you have to pick the right moment to land it. That moment happens when you are walking guile into the corner, neutral jumping booms (late dive to build a little meter and be safe-but don't overuse or you'll eat ex boom) and suddenly guile throws a lp boom and starts walking toward you. let your stick go to neutral and bust out the ex spire. Now you've got a knockdown and the safejumps can begin. A welltimed crossup splash will always knock guile out of flashkick. I have found that the splash, jabxN, far lk xx (ex) spire is REALLY helpful for this matchup as it gives you damage, stun, and mixup leading to another lp typhoon. a stunned guile is my favorite kind. You gotta mix it up though because guile can charge flashkick during the string and the spire will not combo so there's a gap for him to throw it out. Otherwise, build meter by blocking a boom and using cr.mk to poke poke poke poke poke. If guile doesn't do a backfist after a boom in his string i found I could generally sneak in a st.mp or another cr.mk. conditioning guile to AA cr.fierce you also helps as you can then empty jump to spd over a boom--but keep in mind that if guile jumps to meet you and you don't dive/j.jab immediately you will be eating air throw. J.mk works in some situations since it reaches so far, but jumping in general is not the way to get in here. Also, if guile backfists you, just block. any attempt to poke after it will result in eating another backfist cause it's so quick. I've landed U2 a couple times in this match but i'm leaning toward u1 against the guiles that lame it out. guile has no reason to jump--even if you back him into the corner. he'll just sit in charge and wait. guiles will/should choose sonic hurricane for this matchup and if he's low on life he's totally gonna try and find a place to throw it out. The best part, though, is that you can toss out a st.HP or st.RH and if guile does it on reaction you can still get the hit in ftw. " - komradekraig

    Guy
    "Guy--wake up is free crossup into whatever until he has a bar of ex. i've had some success baiting this by jumping as if I'm going to crossup and early diving over him. Obviously, just crouch blocking is safer. Anti-air Guy rather than attempting to meet him in the air. if Guy isn't winning every air-to-air battle he isn't playing correctly (command elbow and either bushin grap are beastly) though i'm not sure if anti air spire will lose to air grab--my guess is it will, with ex spire needing to be grabbed by ex airthrow. Learn to block the run mixup low first then stand on reaction if they overhead. Normally, I'm fine being a grappler and getting corner pressured, but you don't want to let yourself stay there against Guy because anything he lands turns into free U1 for him or maddening resets." - komradekraig

    Hakan
    TBD
  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    Ibuki
    "Any blocked sliding neckbreaker is a free command grab. If you're both facing off at each ends of the screen building meter, or just taunting away merrily, it won't be long before she comes zooming across the ground with this move, so block low and counter!
    If you get knocked down and she begins her vortex mix up (throwing the dagger to hit you high or from behind, then trying to tag you low as you wake up), watch which way she's landing and block it out, and go for an EX 360 if she's chaining normals on the ground. You can also try to blast out an EX Tomahawk Buster if you get up while she's still flying over you. Her timing has to be a lot stricter than yours, so don't get chewed up eating large combos each time.

    Ibuki often likes to try and swarm all over you from the air even when you're standing, with her command flips and general speed. Anticipate the jump over assault, then use a HP Condor Spire to cross under. Trip her with c.HK from behind as she lands, then go for a splash HP cross over attempt into a ticked HP 360. The next time you do this, stop after the splash and two low LPs, then follow her back up into the air (where she's probably by now trying to run away to escape being grabbed) with EX TB, and if it hits and you have the meter, tag on the EX Condor Dive.

    Remember, she can only really take a few hard spins and one basic three hitter combo, and she's out. You can easily afford to trade damage with her, to keep close, and to keep her life bar going down.

    U2 is recommended for this fight, as she tends to spend a lot of time in the air... " - PointBreak91

    Juri
    "You can beat out a reversal wheel with 360 because she's still grabbable on start-up." - Krandor311
    "Mainly just patience. She needs to get in close to do damage and while her fireballs are annoying they actually are rather slow and don't do much. Basically you win this simply by hitting her once. She has to work harder to deal damage to you than you have to do damage to her. She needs to be close to you more than vice versa and pretty much everything she does is unsafe on block against Hawk.

    Work on avoiding her fireballs more than just gaining ground, that will come later. Gaining ground will come normally through practice, but first you need to break the mindset that you need to be close to her otherwise you will make a mistake. If she cannot hurt you with her fireballs she will have to come in close and she will die." - Sakura.Densetsu

    Ken
    TBD

    M. Bison
    "Chasing him to a corner is still a valid strat imho. His teleport has long recovery animation so if he tries to teleport the opposite direction you can hit him easily.

    As for his devils reverse, I usually guess what he does. If he headstomps, I dash under it and spd. If he devil reverse and steers it far away, I walk forward and force him closer to the corner. If he devil reverse and steers the followup to hit you, focus attack and cancel to dash and spd him. I never go for the TB." - leongteng5

    "-Reckless whiffing of s.hk is easily whiff punished by s.hp on reaction
    -AA with FP TB or c.hp against all jump-ins except fierce. Fierce you gotta use EX TB or trade the FP TB
    -Against non-safe jump cross-ups, use df.lp or c.hp to catch people rite above you so as an example, you should never get crossed up in corner by bison unless you've been knocked down w/ an unrecoverable move
    -Against the neutral jump bait when you're downed, use c.fp to beat or trade bison's nj.hk
    -Against passed through ex psycho crusher, s.hk is the only consistent option it seemed other than reversal lp TB
    -When you're knocked down by lk scissors, I believe ex psycho crosses up and fp psycho crusher does not
    -Against Devil's Reverse or headstomp, use nj.fp and when they're coming down, use ex TB, fp TB (trades sometimes), c.hp, or df.lp if they're rite above u the entire time and trying to fuck up your blocking by making the follow-up ambiguous. Against ex headstomp, you can usually backdash into free spd if the bison poorly spaced it
    -s.mk stuffs lk scissors clean and whiffs quickly compared to s.hk or s.hp so use it unpredictably outside of the s.hk range. Do not attempt to use it rite after a scissors however cause it will trade the s.hk that mite follow it.
    -Best range to be is rite at the farthest point an lk scissors kick can reach cause you can sweep, whiff punish, and get free spd's if he whiffs the scissors
    -To deal with backdashes, meaty sweep wake-ups and to deal with teleports, jump over and either choose cross-up splash or condor dive if you see the teleport much like you can punish akuma's teleport with CD

    In this match-up, you basically have to take your time. Poor defense leads to knockdowns and having to deal with a lot of cross-ups so approach slowly. If you get crossed-up and block, stay blocking crouched cause dictators who use s.lp/s.lk, c.mk xx lk scissors will catch you in pre-jump animation. Use ample amounts of s.mp, s.mk (i like this a lot now, not gonna lie), and s.hp to whiff punish and make him come to you. It is very difficult to make ex psycho safely spaced against t.hawk so usually reversal spd is best option against that" - Pieguy

    Makato
    "I would like to add that with makoto, no random pokes are safe, except maybe jab. Her dash punch is FAST. I was getting punished for using St.Mp from nearly full screen away. Her off the wall dive kick is punishable by 360/720. If I recall correctly it's dive kick, followed by two kicks, then you can punish for some hardcore dmg. Her EX Uppercut thing, beats dives clean." - Stricnine
    You need to block oroshi High

    "her st.mp beats any dive that doesn't hit her toward the backside of her head. it's really quite a good AA normal." - komradekraig
    "blocked Makoto dash punch is a free SPD-guarateed" - Lvangundy

    Rose
    "Low strong into spiral block strings can be ex spd'd through as long as they arent a true block string and if they are you remain blocking. Your stand forward and low forward stuff and trade low strong but you have to be wary of her longer pokes (f.rh, st.rh, st.mk). Tech throws and dont get baited by CH st.mk (move is very nice). If rose gets desperate and U2 and starts to walk up, ex spire will trade and nullify the orbs. Ex soul throw beats dive. cr.fp loses to dive. She has a lot of trouble after lp spd mixups and throwing spire out every now and then isnt that bad. Cr.strong is nice as is cr.fp. Rose has to come to you to deal damage which makes it easier. Make her guess her anti airs. Dont be afraid to dive every now and then. Even if you eat a spiral or two you show them that you arent afraid to dive and that they better be damn sure that the anti air option they chose (cr.fp or ex soul throw) is the right one.
    Also after rose slides at you, dont press a button. Seriously if shes up close dont press anything. Just tech the throw that will be coming when she gets bored of making you block. Almost everything she does up close can lead to a ch strong against almost the entire cast. Hawk is no exception. I feel like I'm playing a tekken character against rose and pressing buttons gets you raped in this match. " - gridman

    Rufus
    TBD
  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    Ryu
    Blocked CD could result in U1/Super/(EX)Fireball.

    "ryu can zone you in so many ways it's painful to think about. he doesn't even need any specials besides plasma and you can get owned. throw in dp and crossup tatsu and things get even worse. however, this is also a matchup where you can have full ultra II stocked and still have 75% life. hit up the training room and find the distance where hawk's rh and fp trade with the startup of hadoken. it's in your favor and you have more life so it's really in your favor. you can anti air any kick jump in that ryu does with hawk's cr. forward (yeah, it's awesome) but if he throws in a fp you're eating a combo. bait his cr.forward and retaliate with your own to poke him backwards. you can systematically force ryu back into the corner by trading/neutral jump/focusing plasma and AAing his jump ins. you can also ex spd the low forward i believe. Once you get him to the corner, i stay just out of his cr. forward range and either focus a telegraphed poke to lp spd to mixup or wait for the eventual jump out and hit him with full u2. you can catch inspector gadgets/helicopters (your phrase of choice for the air tatsu escape) with u2 as well. if the ryu tries to tatsu on the ground (they really shouldn't be doing this though) it's a free cr.fp for you." - komradekraig

    Sagat
    "s.hp at the start of the round trades with all of Sagat's everything but EX Upper and Angry Scar." - Heroic_Legacy
    EX-CS goes through high/low fireball and U2 at mid-near range.
    Mixup neutral jump/forward jump with or without early/late CD to keep Sagat guessing which AA to use.

    Sakura
    TBD

    Seth
    TBD

    T. Hawk
    "You could punish a blocked Condor Dive with T. Hawk with Far Roundhouse. You could also punish a blocked Condor Dive with Ultra II. You could dash in quickly after a blocked Condor Dive also and respond with an SPD. Using a Focus Attack to absorb the hit of a non-EX Condor Spire also works well. You can Reversal SPD a blocked Condor Spire." - NickExtreme

    Vega
    "Basically, don't try to punish things unless you are absolutely sure you can. the rolls are often safe because they can be spaced and attempting a typhoon or a cr.jab will just lead to you eating counter-hit claw. focus all the wall dive shenanigans and either backdash/forward dash spd or punish if he happens to land in front of you." - komradekraig

    "once vega has meter, everything becomes hit confirm into ex barcelona annnnnd izuna drop. Vega's pokes will absolutely shut you down and most any attempt to counterpoke will have you eating counter hits and eventually you'll end up getting izuna dropped. vega has a pretty good mixup too, with splendid heel (he sorta twirls and kicks and if the kick hits it knocks you into a free juggle state) beating throws and lows into free damage, his surprisingly quick (for this game) overhead, and the slide. Of course, slide is punishable on block, as are most splendid heels. watch for overhead kicks to turn into tick throws. I'd had success performing a lp typhoon when vega does his crystal roll, but it's a guessing game for whether or not you'll be able to grab him based on what strength the vega player does (if they space correctly and just hit you with the end of the claw you are gonna whiff hard). If they pick ultra 2, empty jump them after a knockdown (cause you've been doing splash jumpins all match, right?) and you'll get free punish even if it isn't a safe jump. " - komradekraig

    Zangief
    Well placed CD will be Lariet. Must be on top of his head.

    "St Fp and St FK beats almost anything gief does. Only thing he can do on the ground to get through that is EX green hand which is very risky. TB stop all of his jumpins dead and air-to-air condor dive beats anything that isn't a headbutt from Gief. Dive also beats Lariat w=if you hit Gief square in the head." - I$AAC
  • Twin RhapsodyTwin Rhapsody Absent for a while. Joined: Posts: 212Registered
    Really good stuff man, thanks for the hard work. You can use cross-up Splash safely against Cammy after LP Typhoon. Take a very slight step forward, then do the Splash late, if timed right you'll be able to block Cannon Spike and punish. Have to be careful if she decided to go with Ultra 2 though (not sure why, but some do) because that will beat cross-up Splash.
    MvC3 Team: Felicia/Chris/Whisker
  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    I transferred as much as I thought should have been moved. I might have missed some important ones. If you strongly feel that I misplaced your suggestions then please do correct me. I'm sure much of this is still up for debate so let's continue this in a constructive format.

    Reply here or message me. Whatever works for me.
  • SabliciousSablicious Joined: Posts: 331Registered
    DisAble - 4:6

    Add-on - 6:4

    Trollkuma - 1:9 (*actually 0:10 but I felt sorry for Hawk :sad: )

    Ballrot - 3:7

    Wanka - 2:8 (*ball beats dive :tdown:)

    See Dyker - 5:5

    Cummy - 3:7

    Chun Wii - 2:8

    Bogey - 3:7

    Dumb - 4:6

    Thee Gay - 2:8

    Dullsimple - 1:9 (*if you're lucky!)

    Dudlame - 2:8

    Wii Honda - 2:8

    El Fucktard - 6:4 (*0:10 if he gets you in the 'two-move loop')

    Gay. Wrong. - 6:4

    Last Gen - 4:6

    Goocum - 0:10

    Bile - 0:10

    Bi - 7:3

    Crapan - 5:5

    Iblowkids - 1:9

    Juri Kaphwan - 1:9

    I_Am_Ken - 2:8

    Bi-son - 1:9

    Crapato - 7:3

    Blows - 7:3

    Dufus - 7:3

    Wiiyu - 0:10

    Faggat - 0:10

    Suckoohya - 5:5

    Shit - 1:9 (*on the off chance you manage to get in/hit him)

    Twink Hawk - n/a (*meh... :coffee:)

    Ugly - 3:7

    Zangayf - 3:7


    NB: You'll see! :wink:
    Street Fighter IV: Bridging the skill gap since 2008.
  • danmishimadanmishima Joined: Posts: 204Registered
    Had some very, very good success against Balrog last night. I didn't jump much. Ducking Forward Kick, Ducking Jab. Snuffed anything he did from range. If he got in, I just blocked, and tried to EX TB him. I even got ballsy and managed to Typhoon 2 dash punches, 1 an EX dash...I don't mean Typhoon them after blocking, I grabbed him before he hit me. I did end up losing the match, though I learned a very powerful lesson. Headbutt beats dive if he does it late...then you eat super or ultra.
  • ChinNutsChinNuts May the Whooo be with you Joined: Posts: 89Registered
    Good shit. Going to start taking notes when i plan online and at the weekly boot camp too see if i have something to contribute.
    Drums!
  • blipwooblipwoo Joined: Posts: 28Registered
    Now this is what a matchup thread should look like. Good work.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,215Registered
    Simply from matchup/characters Ive played (hawks numbers will be second)

    Sagat 6-4
    Abel 5-5
    Guile 7-3
    Ken 5-5
    Gen 2-8 (seriously, cant do anything, its GREAT)
    Rufus 5-5
    Sim 6-4 (not that bad, just dont be predictable)
    Cody 4-6
    Dudely 4-6
    Makoto 3-7
    Chun 6-4
    Ryu 5-5
    Cammy 5-5
    Honda 6-4 (if he turtles and doesnt do anything, otherwise 5-5, whoever gets life lead and can sit on it will win)
    Dic 6-4 (again, if he turtles, otherwise 5-5)
    Dj 6-4
    Fei 6-4 (this is tougher than youd think)
    Gief 4-6
    Vega 4-6
    Hakan 2-8 (rush him down, he cant do anything)
  • JugglerJuggler WRYYY Joined: Posts: 197Registered
    Gief seems more like a 3-7 to me. Hawk outfootsies him by far, and Gief has no good answer to a jumping Hawk.
  • GC76GC76 Joined: Posts: 281Registered
    Good stuff. I actually had no idea Hawk's Cr.LP can stuff Blanka balls.

    Very interested in reading any strategies folks can come up with to deal with the Shotos. Especially the ones that like to turtle up in the corner.
    "Rushing to get there is pointless, when 'there' exists only in your mind."
  • danmishimadanmishima Joined: Posts: 204Registered
    Simply from matchup/characters Ive played (hawks numbers will be second)

    Sagat 6-4
    Abel 5-5
    Guile 7-3
    Ken 5-5
    Gen 2-8 (seriously, cant do anything, its GREAT)
    Rufus 5-5
    Sim 6-4 (not that bad, just dont be predictable)
    Cody 4-6
    Dudely 4-6
    Makoto 3-7
    Chun 6-4
    Ryu 5-5
    Cammy 5-5
    Honda 6-4 (if he turtles and doesnt do anything, otherwise 5-5, whoever gets life lead and can sit on it will win)
    Dic 6-4 (again, if he turtles, otherwise 5-5)
    Dj 6-4
    Fei 6-4 (this is tougher than youd think)
    Gief 4-6
    Vega 4-6
    Hakan 2-8 (rush him down, he cant do anything)

    I've personally not run into a Fei that I've had trouble with. He cannot Chicken Wing you. LP TB will stuff it. As long as you keep CD to a min, you shouldn't have much trouble. DF+LP stuff some of his normals as well...I know his Standing RH gets stuffed. Dhalsim isn't that bad because the DF+LP stuff his limbs...getting in and staying close is still a problem because of the teleport. Sort of the same with Akuma, and to a lesser extent Gouken.
  • NickExtremeNickExtreme Joined: Posts: 41Registered
    T. Hawk Mirror

    From my experiences with T. Hawk both online and offline, whoever has the better knowledge of normals wins. Sort of similar to the Zangief mirror match, keep T. Hawk away with Far Strong and Far Roundhouse and punish Conor Spire and Condor Dive with Far Roundhouse.

    I recommend using Ultra II in T. Hawk mirrors, since a mis-timed jump-in or Condor Dive can be punished easily with it.
    PM me for any help in BlazBlue, I am always open for help and suggestions.

    BBCSEX- Valkenhayn R. Hellsing, Iron-Tager, Mu-12, Relius Clover
    UMvC3 - Dante, Frank West, Wesker, Hawkeye, Spencer, Sentinel, Vergil, Thor, Dormammu
  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    Wouldn't the Far Roundhouse have to be timed well in order to stuff a CD? Would thrust peak stuff incoming CDs?

    What's the preferred punishment for a blocked CD?

    I'm theorizing but a whiffed or blocked CS could be punished with a SPD... Need to go try this.
  • NickExtremeNickExtreme Joined: Posts: 41Registered
    Wouldn't the Far Roundhouse have to be timed well in order to stuff a CD? Would thrust peak stuff incoming CDs?

    What's the preferred punishment for a blocked CD?

    I'm theorizing but a whiffed or blocked CS could be punished with a SPD... Need to go try this.

    Far Roundhouse would need to be timed, mostly it will hit clean or trade the Condor Dive for even damage. Thrust Peak could stuff Condor Dives if time right, but I wouldn't rely on that unless you are clutch with your normals. You could also use Tomahawk Buster and Condor Spire against a Condor Dive(Condor Spire trades more often than Tomahawk Buster). You could punish a blocked Condor Dive with T. Hawk with Far Roundhouse. You could also punish a blocked Condor Dive with Ultra II. You could dash in quickly after a blocked Condor Dive also and respond with an SPD.

    You could punish an incoming Condor Spire with a Tomahawk Buster(time it right, or it will trade or miss, resulting in you taking damage) or your own Condor Spire(trades often). You could stuff a Condor Spire with a Thrust Peak, but it will 95% of the time trade with you taking more damage ; it is better to use Far Fierce or Roundhouse against it, where it hit clean most often(all of T. Hawk's other normals could stuff it too, just prefer the damage of Fierce and Roundhouse.) Using a Focus Attack to absorb the hit of a non-EX Condor Spire also works well.

    And yes, you can Reversal SPD a blocked Condor Spire.
    PM me for any help in BlazBlue, I am always open for help and suggestions.

    BBCSEX- Valkenhayn R. Hellsing, Iron-Tager, Mu-12, Relius Clover
    UMvC3 - Dante, Frank West, Wesker, Hawkeye, Spencer, Sentinel, Vergil, Thor, Dormammu
  • suncowiamsuncowiam Joined: Posts: 185Registered
    Far Roundhouse would need to be timed, mostly it will hit clean or trade the Condor Dive for even damage. Thrust Peak could stuff Condor Dives if time right, but I wouldn't rely on that unless you are clutch with your normals. You could also use Tomahawk Buster and Condor Spire against a Condor Dive(Condor Spire trades more often than Tomahawk Buster). You could punish a blocked Condor Dive with T. Hawk with Far Roundhouse. You could also punish a blocked Condor Dive with Ultra II. You could dash in quickly after a blocked Condor Dive also and respond with an SPD.

    You could punish an incoming Condor Spire with a Tomahawk Buster(time it right, or it will trade or miss, resulting in you taking damage) or your own Condor Spire(trades often). You could stuff a Condor Spire with a Thrust Peak, but it will 95% of the time trade with you taking more damage ; it is better to use Far Fierce or Roundhouse against it, where it hit clean most often(all of T. Hawk's other normals could stuff it too, just prefer the damage of Fierce and Roundhouse.) Using a Focus Attack to absorb the hit of a non-EX Condor Spire also works well.

    And yes, you can Reversal SPD a blocked Condor Spire.

    Thanks for the udpate.
    If you don't mind, I will only be adding the things that can be considered sure things. I'll omit the parts that trade.

    FYI, I'll be on vacation for four days so most like won't be able to update this post until next week. Keep it coming and I'll get to it eventually.
  • EduEdu Joined: Posts: 58Registered
    Blanka was destroying me cause I couldn't punish blocked balls, neither jump safely. Next time I'll spam those c.LP to stop the balls, then. That should make him aproach me.
  • leongteng5leongteng5 Joined: Posts: 74Registered
    You cant spam those cr.lps all the time. Played a bro blanka recently and once he sees me spamming it in anticipation of a blanka ball, he will do a sudden df.HP and it will beat it! I dunno man, I've had it up to here with this matchup
    Malaysia's very own fighting game community: http://insert-coin.my/
  • leongteng5leongteng5 Joined: Posts: 74Registered
    Oh, I found this out recently but I cant pull this off 100%

    If blanka has no ultra, you ca do this on wakeup: walk up to him and stop at maximium spd distance. From here you guess: a) if he blocks or spam electricity, spd him b) if he EX upball (most likely the case), focus the ball, dash, spd. The max spd distance also has another reason: the upball can break focus on reversal. If you stand at the distance I told you about, it will take the ball out of the reversal window and allow you to focus it (at least thats my theory). Cool huh.

    It's still a dangerous guessing game but at least you can do something to blanka on wakeup..But I cant pull it off consistently :(
    Malaysia's very own fighting game community: http://insert-coin.my/
  • leongteng5leongteng5 Joined: Posts: 74Registered
    doublepost
    Malaysia's very own fighting game community: http://insert-coin.my/
  • danmishimadanmishima Joined: Posts: 204Registered
    I was messing around in training mode yesterday and found that you could LP TB Blanka's H Ball...but you have to be off the ground already when he's going to hit you...so you either have to be extremely fast, or psychic about it. You can 360 him out of that stupid DF+FP slide he does too...that's not that hard to react to.

    You can also (and I'm sure most people know this) grab Vega and Gen out of their ground rolls(Vega is easier, his start up is slower), and Dudley and Balrog out of their rush punches( and Balrog's TAP) with a 360. I did a HP 360 at the start of a round against a Balrog and grabbed him right off. I think the guy about gave up right there too!

    Oh, and LP TB stops Balrogs rush punches too...even the EX version:) Add that to what I posted earlier about the Balrog matchup, and that leave 'Rog with Super, Ultra and Buffalo Head to use against you effectively.
  • rush downrush down AKA AAKurtz Joined: Posts: 1,019Registered
    Why mess with LP when Balrogs rush punches? Standing RH hits him out of all the rush punches before he even gets active frames. Only turtling Balrogs stand a chance because the rush punches are free damage for thawk.
    SSF4: Gen, Hawk, Gouken
    3s: Ibuki, Q, Elena
    BLazBLue: Litchi
    MvC2: Rogue, Sent, Blackheart
  • danmishimadanmishima Joined: Posts: 204Registered
    Why mess with LP when Balrogs rush punches? Standing RH hits him out of all the rush punches before he even gets active frames. Only turtling Balrogs stand a chance because the rush punches are free damage for thawk.

    Just to taunt him with different ways of beating his punches:P
  • EduEdu Joined: Posts: 58Registered
    Runaway Goukis are a bitch. I takes a lot o patience to go though all those Hadoukens and Air Hadoukens.

    Wanna know how I do it? I just do a few times to hurt him a bit... and then I stay out. It's annoying to chase in, so I just sit in one place and wait for the time to run out. Desperate Goukis are easy to deal with, assuming you're facing a player used to run away (those who allready play ofensive can do it well).

    That tactic actually landed me a Time Over win once. I got no problem with that. Wanna run from me? Fine with me. I got no prob turtling. XD
  • danmishimadanmishima Joined: Posts: 204Registered
    Runaway Goukis are a bitch. I takes a lot o patience to go though all those Hadoukens and Air Hadoukens.

    Wanna know how I do it? I just do a few times to hurt him a bit... and then I stay out. It's annoying to chase in, so I just sit in one place and wait for the time to run out. Desperate Goukis are easy to deal with, assuming you're facing a player used to run away (those who allready play ofensive can do it well).

    That tactic actually landed me a Time Over win once. I got no problem with that. Wanna run from me? Fine with me. I got no prob turtling. XD

    Just don't EVER CD him when he has super or Ultra. EVER.
  • NickExtremeNickExtreme Joined: Posts: 41Registered
    Runaway Goukis are a bitch. I takes a lot o patience to go though all those Hadoukens and Air Hadoukens.

    Wanna know how I do it? I just do a few times to hurt him a bit... and then I stay out. It's annoying to chase in, so I just sit in one place and wait for the time to run out. Desperate Goukis are easy to deal with, assuming you're facing a player used to run away (those who allready play ofensive can do it well).

    That tactic actually landed me a Time Over win once. I got no problem with that. Wanna run from me? Fine with me. I got no prob turtling. XD

    Better have Ultra II against Goukis like that. Goes right through air fireballs :D
    PM me for any help in BlazBlue, I am always open for help and suggestions.

    BBCSEX- Valkenhayn R. Hellsing, Iron-Tager, Mu-12, Relius Clover
    UMvC3 - Dante, Frank West, Wesker, Hawkeye, Spencer, Sentinel, Vergil, Thor, Dormammu
  • PumpkinBomberPumpkinBomber Troll Hawk Joined: Posts: 3,674Registered
    Why mess with LP when Balrogs rush punches? Standing RH hits him out of all the rush punches before he even gets active frames. Only turtling Balrogs stand a chance because the rush punches are free damage for thawk.

    1) st.hk doesn't beat ex rush punches

    2) st.hk is to slow to catch lp.straight unless they are doing rush punches from 3/4 screen or more. In which case they aren't very good anyway so you should be able to win in a number of other ways.
    www.BattleForTheSouth.com
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
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  • rush downrush down AKA AAKurtz Joined: Posts: 1,019Registered
    1) st.hk doesn't beat ex rush punches

    2) st.hk is to slow to catch lp.straight unless they are doing rush punches from 3/4 screen or more. In which case they aren't very good anyway so you should be able to win in a number of other ways.

    Then don't fucking kick EX dash punches. I didn't think I would have to explain that.
    SSF4: Gen, Hawk, Gouken
    3s: Ibuki, Q, Elena
    BLazBLue: Litchi
    MvC2: Rogue, Sent, Blackheart
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